Mower X-Dory

[TerryLL]

I received in the mail today a set of plans from Mystic for the Mower X-Dory. A very nice and complete set of plans in three sheets: lines, construction plan, deck plan, expanded transom, sail plan, and frame offsets, all fully dimensioned.

She looks like an exceptional sailer: 21' LOA, 14'6" LWL, 5'8" beam, 4'9" LWL beam, and 202 feet of sail, 175 in the big triangular main and 27 in the staysail. She sits low in the water, drawing nearly 8 inches, so she must have carried at least a couple hundred pounds of ballast.

She's decked fore and aft with side decks. One thwart crosses the aft end of the CB case, but other than that the interior is open and roomy; lots of working space for a crew of three. There is about 18" of space between the front of the CB case and the mast step, and a very sturdy-looking mast gate on the aft edge of the foredeck. Stepping the mast would be quick and simple. One shroud either side and a stem-head forestay.

She is very similar to the Chaisson Sea chanty, but there are subtle differences: a narrower bottom, more beam at the waterline, more depth, more sail area, higher freeboard throughout.

In More Building Classis Small Craft Gardner says of the X-Dory, "The success of the X-Dory was so outstanding that there was little incentive to attempt to improve upon it, and good reason not to risk spoiling it, even to a minor extent."

She looks good, very good.

[Thorne]

A lovely design!

http://www.boat-links.com/PT/PT2004/Chesuki-3.jpg
http://www.boat-links.com/PT/PT2004/index.html

[TerryLL]

Thorne,

Thanks for the link, here are a couple more.
The plans I have show the Alpha rig, but the gaff rig looks pretty darn sweet.

http://i325.photobucket.com/albums/k365/TerryLava/MowerX-Dory1.jpg

http://i325.photobucket.com/albums/k365/TerryLava/MowerX-Dory2.jpg

http://www.boat-links.com/PT/PT2004/index.html

[TerryLL]

I'm a little confused here. It was my understanding that the 21' Mower dory was the X-Dory. The pictures in the posts above are the 18' Mower dory, which are also captioned as the X-Dory. Gardner refers only to the 21' as the X-Dory. I know the 21' dory was the original design and it was later redrawn as the 18'.

So which one is the X-Dory? The 18', the 21', or both?

[Thad]

I know of at least 2 Mower designs of 21' racing dories for the Swampscott Club. The first was drawn in 1898, his first commissioned design, initially an open boat but soon most or all were half decked. In 1911 he drew a variation as a half decked boat, this I believe is the x-dory.

[pipefitter]

I have a question being there is pictures in this thread showing what I mean. It seems cumbersome to have the boom to where it is so low that it blocks the view from one side of the boat at any given time or having to duck when changing direction. Is it necessary to have it like this? I see some boats with enough clearance to see pretty much all the way around. The example posted above seems to be extremely low in comparison to other designs. Isn't it somewhat unsafe to be blinded by such a rig or take the chance of getting hit with the boom? As pretty as some of these boats are, that to me would be a nuisance having to deal with that constant blind spot. I notice some sails have a window sewn into the sail but still, the view would be quite limited. I am guessing it is because they are trying to put as much sail area as low as possible but it just looks wrong somehow.

[Thorne]

It is a specialized, lean, mean racin' machine -- so it will look quite different from daysailers or cruising boats the same size.

[TerryLL]

The sail plan in the pics above is not the plan the historic boats used. Both the 18' and the 21' Mower racing dories, and many other racing dories used the alpha rig. The main was roughly equal length on the mast and boom, and the stay sail was small and did not overlap the main. The boom end was cocked up so as not to drag in the water when heeled. Visibility to leeward was particularly good from the helm position. The rig provided for minimum weight aloft and a low center of effort.

[Clinton B Chase]

Visibility with the Alpha rig is excellent. This was one of my first impressions sailing Dan Noyes' Beachcomber, which had a huge main...20 x 17 IIRC.

So it sounds like the Mower dory is 18' and the other Mower dory is the X-dory at 21'.

Terry, would you share a little more...I am planning a dory build...1) just how much more f'board does the x-dory have than the sea-chanty? How much at bow, stern, m'ships?

2) How would this boat be rowed by one? by two? Would the thwart arrangement work out right for two rowers?

3) I am happy about the gate. How tall is the mast and how long is the boom...

It sounds like I need to put an order in. Thanks for info.

[pipefitter]

Thank you for clarifying. I don't know a lot about sail boats. I just wondered if this would be a common consideration when choosing designs, if it was perhaps a flaw of some designs after the fact or if it was somewhere along the lines of putting a v8 in a volkswagen.

[neilm]

Beautiful boat. 5' 8" beam seems about as wide as you can go for comfortable rowing and great for sailing. Perhaps it is the ultimate dory. I still like the looks of the Beachcomer better but the X-Dory has less windage. Sitting on that coaming looks painful. I am toying with the idea of a Beachcomer with the bottom and Garboard of an X-Dory. I like the wide hips of the X-Dory.

Neil

[TerryLL]

Clint,

I'm working up a spreadsheet with the pertinent dimensions of about 8 different dories, including the Alpha/Beach, Sea Chanty and the 21' Mower X-Dory. Hope to post it this evening.

Rowing the X-Dory would not be fun if built to the plans. The single thwart crosses at the aft end of the CB case, which stands proud above the thwart about 9", where it would stab you in the back with every stroke. At 5'8" beam, this is really not an oar-and-sail boat. The X-Dory is maximized for speed under sail. The Alpha/Beach would walk away from it under oars in a dead calm, but under any other conditions the Alpha/Beach would be toast.

Hoist on the mast is 19'6", with about 2' from gooseneck to step. Foot on the boom is 19'. Peak to clew 22'7", about 6" of roach, and no battens show on the plan. 175 feet of mainsail.

[boatbear]

Gidday Terry
Good to see a revived interest in the pretty dories.
I built a Sea Chanty back in, um, 1990. I made it an open boat, because that suited my needs (a boat that my kids could row and fish from, and also a sailing boat for me to fool about in). It has fulfilled expectations to a certain degree - very light and easy to row, and it sails quite well, with the following qualifications: I made a gaff rig for it which works very well in light to moderate airs. In a blow she is a bit tender and not balanced as well as she could be (weathervaning). This is something I believe can be fixed with a larger jib. Also, being an open boat without much freeboard, she will dip the lee rail and scoop a fair bit of water in a blow, while heeled at the angle where she wants to settle and ‘stiffen up’. I think in retrospect that having narrow side decks would be a good idea, though coamings of the height of those on the x-dory pics look pretty uncomfortable. Mind you, this all depends on the available ballast. With enough bodies lolling around in her she is very well behaved in any weather.

http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL405/8230927/20310597/331452282.jpg

http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL405/8230927/20310597/331452310.jpg

http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL405/8230927/20310597/331452233.jpg

re the discrepancies regarding length of the X-dory, note that the Sea Chanty in The Dory Book is called an 18' Swampscott Dory, but has an overall length of 20'. All to do with the convention of naming from the LWL, I believe. As it happens, I scaled my Sea Chanty to an overall length of 18' (5.5m). It really is a lovely boat and well behaved while being 'spirited'. I have clocked 6.2 knots while sailing single-handed and mostly out-of-control. Great fun.

I really like the curved gaff in those pictures. A very pretty rig.
Good luck with your project. I will follow with interest.

[TerryLL]

Hi Charlie,

Your Sea Chanty is a beauty, I have the image on my desktop where I drool over it from time to time. Thanks for the additional photos.

The 18' Mower and the 21' Mower are actually two different boats, and not the same boat referred to by LOA and LWL. The 21' was designed first, and the 18' about 15 years later, but based on the 21'. The confusion was over which one was called the X-Dory. Gardner in More Building Classic Small Craft says, "In 1898...Mower designed a 21-foot racing dory for the Swampscott club. This boat came to be known as the X-Dory..." Pretty clear, I'd say.

I'm not fond of the big triangular rig these boats carried and was considering a rig just like yours. My first boat was a 16' Swampscott with a gaff rig and I've always wanted another, but larger. I am also considering the Alden Indian, which I recently obtained the original sail plan for, a beautiful gaff rig with three deep reef bands.

So many options for beautiful boats. How does one decide?
The best, Terry

[boatbear]

Thanks for the clarification re X-dory sizes.

"So many options for beautiful boats. How does one decide?" Sorry to be the one to point out the bleedin' obvious - you'll just have to build them all. Grin.

[Clinton B Chase]

Neil,

Why do you want to modify the Beachcomber that much? Unless you have a lot of dory expertise/design expertise be wary about messing with the lines of a boat that has hundreds of years of tinkering in its lineage. I have some background, enough to tinker with lines yet I don't want to do so. If I were interested in more hips to the Beachcomber, I'd look instead at the Sea-Chanty or X-Dory and perhaps working the sheer of this boat a little differently...I agree with you ...the sheers on the Swampscotts are sweeter than the racing dories...the racing dories have a flatter sheer...the way they are lined off almost give a powderhorn look where all the planks meet at the stem. I am reworking a Beachcomber and I am tweaking lines but only to account for the fact that I am using glued lap ply which is much thinner than 9/16". Otherwise, it may be easier to draw the racing dories with more sheer and seeing how it looks and how the plank lines work out...that is my hunch, food for thought.

[TerryLL]

Neil,

...be wary about messing with the lines of a boat that has hundreds of years of tinkering in its lineage.

I'm in complete agreement on that point. Lots of excellent dory designs out there, just pick one with the qualities you like.

Clint, there's a spread sheet with dory dimensions on this forum titled Dories Compared. Some interesting differences between the Alpha/Beach and X-Dory.

[Clinton B Chase]

Terry, I saw that and replied. We should keep these posts alive as we learn about these doris and and build them. I am hoping to get word this week to know if we'll be putting a rig and the associated boat parts into a completed Alpha-Beach that we built a few years ago...the kids will build a lug-yawl rig and we will use the boat for expeditions. I hope to soon have 3 dories rigged as sail-and-oar boats for kid exeditions, a Bank dory, a Beachcomber, and a Oughtred-designed Swampscott.

Cheers,
Clint

[TerryLL]

Great plan. Just post the dimensions and I'll enter them in the spreadsheet and repost. Take note on how I recorded the heights, which are actually the hull depths above the inside bottom planking.

[neilm]

Clint, that's good advice on not altering designs. I know I've heard it on this forum many times so there must be truth to it. But these boats were all designed for racing and I'm more interested in safe recreation but with the good looks of the traditional Dories. I haven't found anything close yet. I have not seen the plans or photos of the Sea Chanty. I tried searching online for it with no luck. Do I have to order plans from Mystic just to see it? I'm interested in a Dory 19 - 21 ft LOA with about a 5' 6" beam so I can row it and plenty of stiffness for sailing.

Neil

[TerryLL]

... I'm more interested in safe recreation but with the good looks of the traditional Dories. I'm interested in a Dory 19 - 21 ft LOA with about a 5' 6" beam so I can row it and plenty of stiffness for sailing.Neil

Neil,

The pics posted by boatbear above in this thread are of his Sea Chanty dory. The lines are in The Dory Book by Gardner, but no offset table. The type of dory you're looking for describes the Sea Chanty, the X-Dory, and the Indian. There is no requirement that you put a racing rig on the boat. With a smaller rig any of these dories would be very docile.

[Clinton B Chase]

These dories have a fair amount of wetted sruface when heeled over so I'd really recommend, Neil, that you use a more manageable rig such as a yawl/ketch sprit or lug and think about trying to draw out the boat on paper using the offsets (just like lofting) and giving the boat a little more freeboard...these racing dories will have more initital stability with their 4 1/2' ish beam LWL. The trick is getting the freeboard up a bit to be a little more safe feeling...that would be my recommendation..and keep a bit of a side deck in there. Maybe approach a designer about looking at these mods if you are really serious. I know where you are coming from b/c I am ultimately looking for a boat to get out in with the family...a dory can be such a boat with an appropriate rig. Terry is absolutely right about choosing the right rig - you have to get a ketch/yawl rig into these boats and keep the CE low but you do need the appropriate sail area to drive these hulls, as slippery as they may be under oars, once heeled over they need more canvas than one thinks to get along, esp. if the wind is light (they are heavy things, these dories). Backchannel me and we can talk more...I may be able to help with the mods.

Cheers,
Clint

[TerryLL]

Neil,
These big dories, the Sea Chanty, the X-Dory, even the Alpha/Beach, are orders of magnitude bigger and heavier boats than your CLC skerry. The Caledonia yawl, with minimal internal structure, undecked, runs about 350 pounds. Add the family, the PFDs, survival kit, radio, anchor, lines, cushions, camera, binocks, etc, etc, and you're up to 800-900 pounds pretty quickly. This will not be a fun boat to row any distance. The oars will work fine to maneuver around in the inner harbor, but these big dories are simply too much boat for distance rowing, unless you have two or three rowers.

I built the 18'3" John Dory a few years back (200 pounds). I had three rowing stations, the middle used when rowing alone, and the fore and aft stations when rowing double. With 9' spruce oars this boat was a joy to row double, a lot less fun to row single, and a bear to row single in the wind. Your comments about cranking more freeboard into one of these larger dories by raising the sheer will increase windage and make rowing them even more difficult.

[Daniel Noyes]

Great discussion Terry
If I were choosing a historic dory I would go with an X type decked boat for daysailing, racing, and a Alpha type open hull for fishing, camping, general use.
Interesting to see photos of recent builds of the X type boats have modified the rig and deck layout.
Clint the Boston Classic Boat show was great, small informal and lots of tire kickers! possible work boat build for next spring. I have rigged the Alpha with double purchase rope steering for the sail to Gloucester.
Dan

[TerryLL]

My preference in a dory is for the performance sailing variety, so I'm trying to decide between the Mower X-Dory and the Alden Indian. If I had to pick a general-use, fishing, camping, do-everything dory it would be a dory-skiff with a through-the-transom well of about 22 feet.

[eastern270]

how about the Atkin design Calypso. go to the link below and search it out by names.

http://www.atkinboatplans.com