Best shallow draft sailboat under 32 feet?

[Rigadog]

Does anyone have an opinion?

[Larks]

H28.....of course

[Thermo]

Wharram T30 for the win!

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

Optimist or sunfish.

Or had you some different criteria in mind?

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Yes, please narrow the search criteria slightly!

How shallow, for use in what conditions, and is accomodation needed?

[Woxbox]

Bolger Loose Moose

[kenjamin]

Here's my favorite, Haiku by Iain Oughtred:

http://ford.physics.fsu.edu/Haiku1.jpg

As for the Haiku, you either like the double bilge boards or you don't. To me, anything that lets you walk through the center of the boat (leaned over of course) is a good thing.

http://ford.physics.fsu.edu/Haiku2.jpg

And then I like the more or less conventional rudder and I just like the way it looks. This is a very non-nautical way of putting it, but I think it looks perky – like it could point higher than other Egret style boats.

[paladin]

32 feet........Cape Charles by Dudley Dix.....32 foot version of the 19/21

[Lance F. Gunderson]

I second the vote for PCB's Loose Moose. Skillegalle, at 29', is also a winner. Black Skimmer is also a popular shoal draft design but her leeboards render her unsuitable for many, but at 25' she's trailerable, and affordable if cost is a factor. I wouldn't want to go far offshore in any of these, but for coastal cruising in reasonable weather they are outstanding.

[Grizz_]

Wharram T30 for the win!

ditto

[mdh]

I like this one.

http://www.woodenboatstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=400%2D007

[Jay Greer]

Three boats come to mind. All are of shallow draft. My own H28 "Bright Star" certainly is a joy to sail and cruise. Then there is the thirty foot Herreshoff Ketch
"Quiet Tune" at thirty feet it carries the H28 rig but is slightly less in beam. If one is seeking a very fast and seaworthy boat, The Herreshoff "Araminta" at thirty three feet is a blast to sail.
Jay

[JimConlin]

Dick Newick's 'Spark'

http://www.conlin-boats.com/img_0468b.jpg
http://www.conlin-boats.com/img_0482b.jpg

and the LFH boats that have been mentioned

[htom]

Albert Strange's Wenda. Albert Strange 045 Wenda (http://www.albertstrange.org/?cat=96)

[Woxbox]

Lots of great choices. But to me, the H28s are not shoal draft. What is? Under 2' might be a good measure.

And the range of offerings does beg the question: For what are you going to use this boat? You could live in a Loose Moose. The Newick is a beautiful tri, but has darn little space inside. The Wenda and Haiku are equally spartan.

What are we talking about, anyway?

[Dave Gray]

I'm with Andrew - let us know what you mean by shallow draft. Three feet? twelve inches?

[Paul Fitzgerald]

LFH Meadowlark

[Rigadog]

Okay larger than 20 feet w/ accomodations. Draft would be nice under 2', but make a case for a boat that has more if you like. Spartan is okay. This boat would be used in the Bahamas so it needs to be able to get there safely. It might even be hauled out on rollers when not in use. I like Haiku, but is it better than other Egret types? Also have admired those Cape Charles. And The shallow canoe yawls are beautiful.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

Atalanta, 26 or 31. as the monohull
Tiki 26/30 as cat.

[Woxbox]

That sheds a different light on it. How about the Bahama Mama? Designed for the service.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.cmdboats.com/images/bahama_mama.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.cmdboats.com/bahamamama.htm&h=550&w=392&sz=41&hl=en&start=1&um=1&usg=__P4Xg7dMTgPB9hbKmKftr0UeWir4=&tbnid=lJuE3s_lOBTmtM:&tbnh=133&tbnw=95&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbahama%2Bmama%2Bboat%26um%3D1%26hl%3D en%26rls%3DGGLD,GGLD:2004-42,GGLD:en%26sa%3DN


http://www.cmdboats.com/images/bahama_mama.jpg

[kenjamin]

Rigadog,

I'm completely bias when it comes to Iain Oughtred's designs as I've built his Caledonia Yawl, he has encouraged me somewhat on my experimental birdwing mast and I keep coming to the conclusion that Iain has a talent for drawing boats that are just a little saltier and prettier than the rest of them. Specifically, I like that Haiku is spartan. That is one of the things that appeals to me in my dream of owning one because I would use it for a vacation boat (to the Bahamas) and not to live on. There is no doubt that Bahama Mamma would provide much more comfortable accommodations but she looks quite a bit heavier and not as shallow drafted. I'm thinking that Haiku would be the much more responsive under sail (or motor) and of the smallest possible draft. To put it in automotive terms, my wife drives a Lexus four door sedan and it's a great car but I'd rather drive my Miata.

Whether Haiku is better than the other Egrets, as far as evoking the legendary past of that famous original Egret, it fails for the most part. On the good side, it has a less obstructed cabin, redundancy for its lateral resistance (a good thing, me thinks), a more efficient rudder, a proper outboard well, and a self bailing cockpit. I would also put big money (if I had some) on Haiku pointing higher than the more traditional forms of Egret.

Good luck with your choice and build. And don't forget your available crew at the FSU Physics Department (me).:D

[Thad Van Gilder]

LF Herreshoffe Meadowlark.

definitely.

There's one at my marina and Its awesome!

-Thad

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

One point that I would like to make is that, in considering these very shoal drafted cabin boats, I would put a real premium on simplicity and sparkling performance under sail.

Half the fun is wriggling into and out of tight spots. If you are fighting complex lifting keel arrangements and the boat is sluggish, its no fun.

My next thought is that if the draft is under 2ft the boat should sit upright when dried out, and my last idea is that if the forefoot is somewhat shallower you can avoid having a dinghy, but at the price of some slamming, maybe.

[MTRiverDrifter]

"Best" is pretty darn subjective, but William Garden's Cat Ketch "Mist" (WB#35) would be my choice (30', 7'9", 24"-4'9", 8,000lbs.).

[dm_scott]

How about some Maurice Griffiths? A Waterwitch

http://www.eventides.org.uk/images/Bonita%20ashore.jpg

http://www.eventides.org.uk/images/tellia.jpg

http://www.eventides.org.uk/waterpic.htm

[Jay Greer]

Granted, the H28 with draft of 3'6" might not be shallow enough for you in skinny waters. But, I should think that the Meadow Lark which draws only fifteen inches might be worth some consideration. Although this is a lee board design, it is by no means a difficult boat to sail. One great advantage of the Meadow Lark is that it needs no dinghy as it can be run up on the beach. The twin boards will keep it on an even keel.
Jay
Jay

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

It is said of the Waterwitch that MG himself remarked "Every designer is allowed one mistake!"

They sail a bit better than a Roberts Spray, but not much.

The Meadow Lark is a stretched, refined, version of an English barge yacht. The leeboard Waterwitch is the unstretched version of the same thing.

[Rigadog]

Rigadog,

I'm completely bias when it comes to Iain Oughtred's designs as I've built his Caledonia Yawl, he has encouraged me somewhat on my experimental birdwing mast and I keep coming to the conclusion that Iain has a talent for drawing boats that are just a little saltier and prettier than the rest of them. Specifically, I like that Haiku is spartan. That is one of the things that appeals to me in my dream of owning one because I would use it for a vacation boat (to the Bahamas) and not to live on. There is no doubt that Bahama Mamma would provide much more comfortable accommodations but she looks quite a bit heavier and not as shallow drafted. I'm thinking that Haiku would be the much more responsive under sail (or motor) and of the smallest possible draft. To put it in automotive terms, my wife drives a Lexus four door sedan and it's a great car but I'd rather drive my Miata.

Whether Haiku is better than the other Egrets, as far as evoking the legendary past of that famous original Egret, it fails for the most part. On the good side, it has a less obstructed cabin, redundancy for its lateral resistance (a good thing, me thinks), a more efficient rudder, a proper outboard well, and a self bailing cockpit. I would also put big money (if I had some) on Haiku pointing higher than the more traditional forms of Egret.

Good luck with your choice and build. And don't forget your available crew at the FSU Physics Department (me).:D

Yeah it is a cool boat. Has one been built to your knowledge? I hear people tisk-tisk the yawl rig, but I like it.

[Rigadog]

How about this?

32ft. Centreboard Barge Tilikum
design specifications, sail plan, extended comments

Sail Plan, Specifications, and Comments



slide show »»

http://www.tadroberts.ca/services/new-design/images/Tilikum-S.jpg Tilikum


32' Centreboard Barge Tilikum

Construction: cedar-strip core sheathed in fiberglass
LOA: 32' 0"
Beam: 9' 0"
Draft: 1'8" B/U
Displacement: 12,000 lbs
Ballast: 4,200 lbs
Sail Area: 615 sq.ft.
Builder: [/URL]
Comments

From “[URL="http://www.tadroberts.ca/about/publications/"]Sailing Cruiser Design (http://www.barefootwoodenboats.com/)”: Tilikum's total displacement is 12,000 pounds, of which 4,2000 pounds is ballast and 6,000 pounds is in the rig, structure, interior, and machinery. We have only 1,800 pounds left for outfit, crew, and stores. Is it enough? Probably not...But it will take slightly more than 1,000 pounds to put her down an inch, and she can easily handle that...I designed Tilikum for what I think will be her average sailing conditions, and included safety factors for anticipated overloads.
We notice two things right off when looking at Tilikum's profile. First is the unusual Chinese balance lug rig. There are several really good reasons to rig Tilikum this way. First is ease of construction; it is low-tech, and it is possible to build the rig out of found parts. Ease of handling is its next great advantage. With a seeming spider web of lines, sheets, lazyjacks, and parrels, it looks complex. But in operation the lug rig is very simple; because of the balance, sheet loads are very small. The heavy yard means that if you let go the halyard, the sail drops and settles neatly into its lazyjacks, no matter your course, the wind strength, or the strength of your crew. Controls are all led to the cockpit. This makes her an ideal vessel for the singlehander...
In Tilikum's case the sailarea/displacement ratio is 17.1, and the vast majority of her sail area is the main, which will provide the drive. This sail can be large because it is so easy to handle. Thelittle mizzen is for balance, steering, and holding the ship into the wind at anchor.
Because there is no need to be running up to the mast, Tilikum can have a raised deck forward of the cockpit. This provides a wonderfully spacious interior, even though the vessel is of only moderate beam. It also provides tremendous reserve buoyancy up high; she will pop right back up from a knock-down. Her moderate beam and high deck mean she will stay afloat on her side because the centreline hatches will be clear of the water.
Tilikum is aimed at a certain type of performance--the ability to sail coastwise in open water, yet also creep up tiny creeks to wait out tides while resting on the mud.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Hull is poor copy of Waterwitch. Rig is lousy. See my comments above.

[Steve Paskey]

Phil Bolger's MANATEE. 33 feet long, draft under 2 feet (I think). Bolger described it as his update to the LFH Meadowlark. The "chinese gaff" rig in the picture below is the original rig -- IIRC, Bolger used a large triangular sail with a sprit boom.

http://www.atomvoyages.com/images/Alert10kb42.JPG

[Hwyl]

Yeah it is a cool boat. Has one been built to your knowledge? I hear people tisk-tisk the yawl rig, but I like it.
Yes, there's a pretty extensive article in Classic Boat, about building a Haiku in England. Andrew would probably know the issue. It's written by the builder and starts out being dismissive and ends up appreciating the boat. Well written and informative.

You'd have to choose your weather for crossing the Straits of Florida.

BTW. I've cruised the Bahamas twice in different 9' draught boats, so the current wisdom does not always hold true.

[Lance F. Gunderson]

I went aboard Alert, the original Manatee, at the Isles Of Shoals a few years ago. Her elderly skipper and his young bride were returning to Maine after a trip to and from Cuba; before that they'd been cruising in Europe and had sailed her over and back. She (the boat) was for sail on Craig's List a while back. Located near the Damriscotta River I think.Could be a great value. I liked the boat a lot, and she seemed to be in good shape. I'd like her even better if she still had the designed raised deck. The owner/builder chainsawed out a square and added a doghouse for full headroom, which he decided he needed. They liked the junk rig; there was no mizzen when I saw her. I suspect they gave the diesel a lot of use.

[David G]

It is said of the Waterwitch that MG himself remarked "Every designer is allowed one mistake!"

They sail a bit better than a Roberts Spray, but not much.

The Meadow Lark is a stretched, refined, version of an English barge yacht. The leeboard Waterwitch is the unstretched version of the same thing.

ACB - I love the look of the bilge keel Waterwitch. What similar boats - from MG or otherwise - do you know of and recommend.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Oh, nearly any of the others!

Lets divide into two classes - hard chine ply and round bilge carvel.

In the former class the Eventide, which admittedly is smaller, has none of the drawbacks of the Waterwitch - the design comes in two sizes and is a very popular one.

In the round, the Waterwitch looks "wrong" - too slab sided. The Eventide avoids this and sails a deal better into the bargain.

Moving up a size, the Golden Hind is a real winner - at one time more of these had crossed the Atlantic than any other design. Much prettier than the Waterwitch and sails better with equally good accomodation. I used to sail a lot with a friend who had one - performance is "adequate" rather than startling but it is adequate. Lovely boats.

Now, on the round bilge carvel side of things, two stand out for me - one is the Kylix, a 27 footer which was the last design that he built for himself, again raised deck and loads of room below, and pretty good sailing qualities. These were built as a standard design in iroko to Lloyds + 100A1 by Bure Marine in Lowestoft - good boat to look out for.

The other - the real long distance job in MG's designs, is of course the Good Hope, which is a pretty big boat, but excellent.

Hope this helps!

[Boatsmith]

Wharrams tiki 30 is a pretty awesme boat for cruising Bahamas, Florida, Gulf coast. Immense deck space, lots of interior volume, (but split into seperate hulls) and you can park it on the beach. At 2' 1" draft if you hit the bottom get off and push. David

[kenjamin]

Some joker:D did a heck of a good job on this one shown at the Mystic WoodenBoat Show this year:

http://ford.physics.fsu.edu/Tiki1348.jpg

Let me know, Boatsmith, if you want the image in full resolution.

How does she sail???

Fair winds, kenjamin

[Rigadog]

nice Tiki. Yes that would be a good boat for the Bahamas. I've always been shy of the idea of building a boat twice (two hulls), but maybe that's not logical since we get boat by the pound either by money or sweat.

[Rigadog]

bump

[Paul Pless]

Best shallow draft sailboat under 32 feet?

Does anyone have an opinion?

bump

okay

http://www.wetasschronicles.com/KiteboardSpeed.JPG

[paladin]

You can write Dudley dix and get a set of study prints to look at...(Cape Charles)....I have the originals here and all the frames etc on mylar. It's a relatively fast build boat. You can build it with a centerboard, but I had it worked for a short stub keel. I was designed for ply, but I also did the scantlings for cedar strip, as edge gluing square strips was far more economical than purchasing plywood, and the intent was an inxpensive coastal/island cruiser.

[RodB]

Reuel Parker's updated Presto design... easy to construct, great profile.

http://www.parker-marine.com/P30page.html

http://www.parker-marine.com/descP30.html


Slightly larger but easy to build and quite appealing

http://www.parker-marine.com/E35page.html

http://www.woodenboatstore.com/32-Mystic-Sharpie/productinfo/400%2D122/

http://www.parker-marine.com/descE35.html

[Ian McColgin]

Way too open-ended since shoal draft is not the sole issue. For example, I chose Marmalade because I needed the most boat for the least length that I could live aboard. Having made that choise, I decided that real off-shore ability could be scrapped so long as she had real sea kindliness and could do 'long shore sailing which in my mind could mean a straight run from Cape Cod to Halifax NS.

So we ended up with a 25' but - here's the critical measure of capacity - SIX TON cat boat that draws nothing at the bow and about 2-3 at the worm shoe. But a catboat takes a certain amount of traditional seamanship to handle safely and some serious muscle to get that 550 foot sail and heavy gaff up.

Especially nice, Marmalade has standing headroom, so long as you're under 6-1 and stand in the center. Since the sole is pretty much on-center, this is about inevitable but I have to keep my head between deck beams in the galley and I have to enter the head pointed the way I want to end up.

One of the oddest things I'm finding is how utterly wonderful the huge cockpit can be. I have not been using the dodger in a couple of years but instead made what I call the conastoga wagon that runs from about half-way over the skylight aft to just ahead of the transom. Thus, the perfect cockpit tent in warm weather, sheds all rain even in a high wind (at anchor) and gives me a nice three season living room.

All by way of saying that thinking through criteria is a good thing but it also helps to be open to what happens when you fall in love. Boats are like people that way - once you're in love some "flaws" just don't matter after all. Who cares if she can't cook or won't take a head sea well?

[BriMac]

Roxane Roxane Roxane !!

[stevedwyer]

Who sells the Haiku plans? 890.au at Duck Flats?
How does the draft with centerboard and rudder compare to the H28?

[pefjr]

Does anyone have an opinion?
fiberglass? 33' Glander Yawl, built in Key Largo, years ago. A few still around.

[Steve Paskey]

As for the Haiku, you either like the double bilge boards or you don't. To me, anything that lets you walk through the center of the boat (leaned over of course) is a good thing.

FYI, the plans now show a single off-center centerboard as an alternative to the twin bilge boards.

[DGentry]

A multi, of course. A Wharram Pahi 31 or Tiki 30, or a Brown, Newick, or Farrier (etc) tri - being pretty conservative with the performance boats at sea.
Pahi 31
http://wharram.com/images/B-pahi31.jpg

If I had to go offshore in a shoal draft monohull, of less than 32', I'd pick a Bolger Romp, or perhaps his updated Yonder design. I'd prefer Romp, for her hull shape and simplicity, as well as the proven seaworthyness (one sailed through a hurricane).
Romp:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3296/2702418024_3035766714.jpg


Otherwise, Pete Culler's periauger scow design looks good - and roomy, too.

Bolger's Berengaria schooner is intriguing, too, in a very different sort of way.

As for Haiku or Egret . . . cool, indeed, and both are pretty and capable - but tiny inside.

headroom appears to be 48 inches at the companion way and 34 inches at the front end of the cabin . . .

There's no walking through those cabins, leaned over or not. Duckwalking, then crawling. Sitting or prone, no problem, but . . . .
Well, they certainly have their place and I'd take one of those in a heartbeat, if offered to me, but even I can appreciate the comforts of an RV over my backpacking tent!

[johnw]

Okay larger than 20 feet w/ accomodations. Draft would be nice under 2', but make a case for a boat that has more if you like. Spartan is okay. This boat would be used in the Bahamas so it needs to be able to get there safely. It might even be hauled out on rollers when not in use. I like Haiku, but is it better than other Egret types? Also have admired those Cape Charles. And The shallow canoe yawls are beautiful.
Shoot, and I was all set to suggest one of these:

http://www.team-invictus.co.uk/Gallery/LAC2004/gv12.jpg

I do think a multihull has considerable advantages. But you might have more room and comfort on a Norwalk Island Sharpie, the 29 or the 31.

[MTRiverDrifter]

I covet Garden's Mist.

[Rigadog]

One of the other attractions to having a shoal draft boat is that you can ( if built with modern methods) keep it on land and not pay slip fees which are getting ridiculous.

Keep 'em coming....

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

http://www.roxane-romilly.co.uk/images/22.jpg (http://www.roxane-romilly.co.uk/)

[Rigadog]

http://www.roxane-romilly.co.uk/images/22.jpg (http://www.roxane-romilly.co.uk/)

Lovely, please identify...

[zauberberg]

She is Nigel Iren's Roxane ("Mischief" owned by Cees Verhoef's), bigger sister of Romilly.

[Paul Pless]

Lovely, please identify...Google designers Nigel Irens and/or Ed Burnette, that boat is the Roxanne/Romily design family. Yes very lovely indeed.

[chrisk]

Ted Brewer's Mystic

http://www.tedbrewer.com/sail_wood/images/Mystic-Sharpie-sailing.gif

http://www.tedbrewer.com/sail_wood/images/MysticSharpie-beached.gif

See http://www.tedbrewer.com/sail_wood/mystic.htm for specs

[George Ray]

Wharram Tiki 30, Boatsmith built would be nice!

Honorable mention:
http://www.rodgermartindesign.com/images/Image/124/124-stbd-stern-7-16-09-450-.jpg
http://unionriverboat.com/images/deckpeoplesailing.jpg
http://www.ryderboats.com/
http://unionriverboat.com/
http://www.ryderboats.com/Images/AnnapolisThumbnail.jpg
http://www.rodgermartindesign.com/portfolio.php?item=82

[johnw]

http://www.nisboats.com/pics/BoatDesignPicsLarge/NIS-29-layout.jpg

Norwalk Island Sharpie.

http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL1913/10058894/18139569/284908820.jpg

[Dave Wright]

There's a potential candidate on the back cover of the Woodenboat 2010 "Small Boats" magazine. I didn't much care for the magazine this time, but the back cover (West ad) attracted me. Can anyone provide info and links to the identity of that sharpie? Thanks

[Dave Wright]

OK, I found it myself. (I noticed it was misidentifies in a January thread). It's J. R. Watson's interpretation of Chapelle's "Dandy." At 28 feet and < 1 foot draft she meets the criteria of this thread. A very nice boat. I like the rig too, you folks can dig up the photos of that.

http://www.westsystem.com/ss/lady-b-launched/



http://www.westsystem.com/ss/assets/BLOG-images/_resampled/ResizedImage600324-Lady-B-Sharpie1.jpg

[Rigadog]

OK, I found it myself. (I noticed it was misidentifies in a January thread). It's J. R. Watson's interpretation of Chapelle's "Dandy." At 28 feet and < 1 foot draft she meets the criteria of this thread. A very nice boat. I like the rig too, you folks can dig up the photos of that.

http://www.westsystem.com/ss/lady-b-launched/



http://www.westsystem.com/ss/assets/BLOG-images/_resampled/ResizedImage600324-Lady-B-Sharpie1.jpg


I felt the same way, the back cover justified the purchase. Agree about the issue, too many power boats for me.

Maybe it is time for Wooden Boat to do 2 magazines; one for power boat people and one for sailors.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

Lovely, please identify...

Click the picture - It's Nigel Irens "Roxanne".

[Boatsmith]

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4049/4285570170_551059188d.jpgHow shallow a draft do you want? I am biased
http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/%3Ca%20href=%22http://www.flickr.com/photos/boatsmith/4284808757/%22%20title=%221%20by%20boatsmith,%20on%20Flickr%2 2%3E%3Cimg%20src=%22http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2713/4284808757_b82480bf9f_o.jpg%22%20width=%22135%22%2 0height=%2289%22%20alt=%221%22%20/%3E%3C/a%3E