Best shallow draft sailboat under 32 feet?

[Rigadog]

Does anyone have an opinion?

[Larks]

H28.....of course

[Thermo]

Wharram T30 for the win!

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

Optimist or sunfish.

Or had you some different criteria in mind?

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Yes, please narrow the search criteria slightly!

How shallow, for use in what conditions, and is accomodation needed?

[Woxbox]

Bolger Loose Moose

[kenjamin]

Here's my favorite, Haiku by Iain Oughtred:

http://ford.physics.fsu.edu/Haiku1.jpg

As for the Haiku, you either like the double bilge boards or you don't. To me, anything that lets you walk through the center of the boat (leaned over of course) is a good thing.

http://ford.physics.fsu.edu/Haiku2.jpg

And then I like the more or less conventional rudder and I just like the way it looks. This is a very non-nautical way of putting it, but I think it looks perky – like it could point higher than other Egret style boats.

[paladin]

32 feet........Cape Charles by Dudley Dix.....32 foot version of the 19/21

[Lance F. Gunderson]

I second the vote for PCB's Loose Moose. Skillegalle, at 29', is also a winner. Black Skimmer is also a popular shoal draft design but her leeboards render her unsuitable for many, but at 25' she's trailerable, and affordable if cost is a factor. I wouldn't want to go far offshore in any of these, but for coastal cruising in reasonable weather they are outstanding.

[Grizz_]

Wharram T30 for the win!

ditto

[mdh]

I like this one.

http://www.woodenboatstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=400%2D007

[Jay Greer]

Three boats come to mind. All are of shallow draft. My own H28 "Bright Star" certainly is a joy to sail and cruise. Then there is the thirty foot Herreshoff Ketch
"Quiet Tune" at thirty feet it carries the H28 rig but is slightly less in beam. If one is seeking a very fast and seaworthy boat, The Herreshoff "Araminta" at thirty three feet is a blast to sail.
Jay

[JimConlin]

Dick Newick's 'Spark'

http://www.conlin-boats.com/img_0468b.jpg
http://www.conlin-boats.com/img_0482b.jpg

and the LFH boats that have been mentioned

[htom]

Albert Strange's Wenda. Albert Strange 045 Wenda (http://www.albertstrange.org/?cat=96)

[Woxbox]

Lots of great choices. But to me, the H28s are not shoal draft. What is? Under 2' might be a good measure.

And the range of offerings does beg the question: For what are you going to use this boat? You could live in a Loose Moose. The Newick is a beautiful tri, but has darn little space inside. The Wenda and Haiku are equally spartan.

What are we talking about, anyway?

[Dave Gray]

I'm with Andrew - let us know what you mean by shallow draft. Three feet? twelve inches?

[Paul Fitzgerald]

LFH Meadowlark

[Rigadog]

Okay larger than 20 feet w/ accomodations. Draft would be nice under 2', but make a case for a boat that has more if you like. Spartan is okay. This boat would be used in the Bahamas so it needs to be able to get there safely. It might even be hauled out on rollers when not in use. I like Haiku, but is it better than other Egret types? Also have admired those Cape Charles. And The shallow canoe yawls are beautiful.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

Atalanta, 26 or 31. as the monohull
Tiki 26/30 as cat.

[Woxbox]

That sheds a different light on it. How about the Bahama Mama? Designed for the service.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.cmdboats.com/images/bahama_mama.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.cmdboats.com/bahamamama.htm&h=550&w=392&sz=41&hl=en&start=1&um=1&usg=__P4Xg7dMTgPB9hbKmKftr0UeWir4=&tbnid=lJuE3s_lOBTmtM:&tbnh=133&tbnw=95&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbahama%2Bmama%2Bboat%26um%3D1%26hl%3D en%26rls%3DGGLD,GGLD:2004-42,GGLD:en%26sa%3DN


http://www.cmdboats.com/images/bahama_mama.jpg

[kenjamin]

Rigadog,

I'm completely bias when it comes to Iain Oughtred's designs as I've built his Caledonia Yawl, he has encouraged me somewhat on my experimental birdwing mast and I keep coming to the conclusion that Iain has a talent for drawing boats that are just a little saltier and prettier than the rest of them. Specifically, I like that Haiku is spartan. That is one of the things that appeals to me in my dream of owning one because I would use it for a vacation boat (to the Bahamas) and not to live on. There is no doubt that Bahama Mamma would provide much more comfortable accommodations but she looks quite a bit heavier and not as shallow drafted. I'm thinking that Haiku would be the much more responsive under sail (or motor) and of the smallest possible draft. To put it in automotive terms, my wife drives a Lexus four door sedan and it's a great car but I'd rather drive my Miata.

Whether Haiku is better than the other Egrets, as far as evoking the legendary past of that famous original Egret, it fails for the most part. On the good side, it has a less obstructed cabin, redundancy for its lateral resistance (a good thing, me thinks), a more efficient rudder, a proper outboard well, and a self bailing cockpit. I would also put big money (if I had some) on Haiku pointing higher than the more traditional forms of Egret.

Good luck with your choice and build. And don't forget your available crew at the FSU Physics Department (me).:D

[Thad Van Gilder]

LF Herreshoffe Meadowlark.

definitely.

There's one at my marina and Its awesome!

-Thad

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

One point that I would like to make is that, in considering these very shoal drafted cabin boats, I would put a real premium on simplicity and sparkling performance under sail.

Half the fun is wriggling into and out of tight spots. If you are fighting complex lifting keel arrangements and the boat is sluggish, its no fun.

My next thought is that if the draft is under 2ft the boat should sit upright when dried out, and my last idea is that if the forefoot is somewhat shallower you can avoid having a dinghy, but at the price of some slamming, maybe.

[MTRiverDrifter]

"Best" is pretty darn subjective, but William Garden's Cat Ketch "Mist" (WB#35) would be my choice (30', 7'9", 24"-4'9", 8,000lbs.).

[dm_scott]

How about some Maurice Griffiths? A Waterwitch

http://www.eventides.org.uk/images/Bonita%20ashore.jpg

http://www.eventides.org.uk/images/tellia.jpg

http://www.eventides.org.uk/waterpic.htm

[Jay Greer]

Granted, the H28 with draft of 3'6" might not be shallow enough for you in skinny waters. But, I should think that the Meadow Lark which draws only fifteen inches might be worth some consideration. Although this is a lee board design, it is by no means a difficult boat to sail. One great advantage of the Meadow Lark is that it needs no dinghy as it can be run up on the beach. The twin boards will keep it on an even keel.
Jay
Jay

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

It is said of the Waterwitch that MG himself remarked "Every designer is allowed one mistake!"

They sail a bit better than a Roberts Spray, but not much.

The Meadow Lark is a stretched, refined, version of an English barge yacht. The leeboard Waterwitch is the unstretched version of the same thing.

[Rigadog]

Rigadog,

I'm completely bias when it comes to Iain Oughtred's designs as I've built his Caledonia Yawl, he has encouraged me somewhat on my experimental birdwing mast and I keep coming to the conclusion that Iain has a talent for drawing boats that are just a little saltier and prettier than the rest of them. Specifically, I like that Haiku is spartan. That is one of the things that appeals to me in my dream of owning one because I would use it for a vacation boat (to the Bahamas) and not to live on. There is no doubt that Bahama Mamma would provide much more comfortable accommodations but she looks quite a bit heavier and not as shallow drafted. I'm thinking that Haiku would be the much more responsive under sail (or motor) and of the smallest possible draft. To put it in automotive terms, my wife drives a Lexus four door sedan and it's a great car but I'd rather drive my Miata.

Whether Haiku is better than the other Egrets, as far as evoking the legendary past of that famous original Egret, it fails for the most part. On the good side, it has a less obstructed cabin, redundancy for its lateral resistance (a good thing, me thinks), a more efficient rudder, a proper outboard well, and a self bailing cockpit. I would also put big money (if I had some) on Haiku pointing higher than the more traditional forms of Egret.

Good luck with your choice and build. And don't forget your available crew at the FSU Physics Department (me).:D

Yeah it is a cool boat. Has one been built to your knowledge? I hear people tisk-tisk the yawl rig, but I like it.

[Rigadog]

How about this?

32ft. Centreboard Barge Tilikum
design specifications, sail plan, extended comments

Sail Plan, Specifications, and Comments



slide show »»

http://www.tadroberts.ca/services/new-design/images/Tilikum-S.jpg Tilikum


32' Centreboard Barge Tilikum

Construction: cedar-strip core sheathed in fiberglass
LOA: 32' 0"
Beam: 9' 0"
Draft: 1'8" B/U
Displacement: 12,000 lbs
Ballast: 4,200 lbs
Sail Area: 615 sq.ft.
Builder: [/URL]
Comments

From “[URL="http://www.tadroberts.ca/about/publications/"]Sailing Cruiser Design (http://www.barefootwoodenboats.com/)”: Tilikum's total displacement is 12,000 pounds, of which 4,2000 pounds is ballast and 6,000 pounds is in the rig, structure, interior, and machinery. We have only 1,800 pounds left for outfit, crew, and stores. Is it enough? Probably not...But it will take slightly more than 1,000 pounds to put her down an inch, and she can easily handle that...I designed Tilikum for what I think will be her average sailing conditions, and included safety factors for anticipated overloads.
We notice two things right off when looking at Tilikum's profile. First is the unusual Chinese balance lug rig. There are several really good reasons to rig Tilikum this way. First is ease of construction; it is low-tech, and it is possible to build the rig out of found parts. Ease of handling is its next great advantage. With a seeming spider web of lines, sheets, lazyjacks, and parrels, it looks complex. But in operation the lug rig is very simple; because of the balance, sheet loads are very small. The heavy yard means that if you let go the halyard, the sail drops and settles neatly into its lazyjacks, no matter your course, the wind strength, or the strength of your crew. Controls are all led to the cockpit. This makes her an ideal vessel for the singlehander...
In Tilikum's case the sailarea/displacement ratio is 17.1, and the vast majority of her sail area is the main, which will provide the drive. This sail can be large because it is so easy to handle. Thelittle mizzen is for balance, steering, and holding the ship into the wind at anchor.
Because there is no need to be running up to the mast, Tilikum can have a raised deck forward of the cockpit. This provides a wonderfully spacious interior, even though the vessel is of only moderate beam. It also provides tremendous reserve buoyancy up high; she will pop right back up from a knock-down. Her moderate beam and high deck mean she will stay afloat on her side because the centreline hatches will be clear of the water.
Tilikum is aimed at a certain type of performance--the ability to sail coastwise in open water, yet also creep up tiny creeks to wait out tides while resting on the mud.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Hull is poor copy of Waterwitch. Rig is lousy. See my comments above.

[Steve Paskey]

Phil Bolger's MANATEE. 33 feet long, draft under 2 feet (I think). Bolger described it as his update to the LFH Meadowlark. The "chinese gaff" rig in the picture below is the original rig -- IIRC, Bolger used a large triangular sail with a sprit boom.

http://www.atomvoyages.com/images/Alert10kb42.JPG

[Hwyl]

Yeah it is a cool boat. Has one been built to your knowledge? I hear people tisk-tisk the yawl rig, but I like it.
Yes, there's a pretty extensive article in Classic Boat, about building a Haiku in England. Andrew would probably know the issue. It's written by the builder and starts out being dismissive and ends up appreciating the boat. Well written and informative.

You'd have to choose your weather for crossing the Straits of Florida.

BTW. I've cruised the Bahamas twice in different 9' draught boats, so the current wisdom does not always hold true.

[Lance F. Gunderson]

I went aboard Alert, the original Manatee, at the Isles Of Shoals a few years ago. Her elderly skipper and his young bride were returning to Maine after a trip to and from Cuba; before that they'd been cruising in Europe and had sailed her over and back. She (the boat) was for sail on Craig's List a while back. Located near the Damriscotta River I think.Could be a great value. I liked the boat a lot, and she seemed to be in good shape. I'd like her even better if she still had the designed raised deck. The owner/builder chainsawed out a square and added a doghouse for full headroom, which he decided he needed. They liked the junk rig; there was no mizzen when I saw her. I suspect they gave the diesel a lot of use.

[David G]

It is said of the Waterwitch that MG himself remarked "Every designer is allowed one mistake!"

They sail a bit better than a Roberts Spray, but not much.

The Meadow Lark is a stretched, refined, version of an English barge yacht. The leeboard Waterwitch is the unstretched version of the same thing.

ACB - I love the look of the bilge keel Waterwitch. What similar boats - from MG or otherwise - do you know of and recommend.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Oh, nearly any of the others!

Lets divide into two classes - hard chine ply and round bilge carvel.

In the former class the Eventide, which admittedly is smaller, has none of the drawbacks of the Waterwitch - the design comes in two sizes and is a very popular one.

In the round, the Waterwitch looks "wrong" - too slab sided. The Eventide avoids this and sails a deal better into the bargain.

Moving up a size, the Golden Hind is a real winner - at one time more of these had crossed the Atlantic than any other design. Much prettier than the Waterwitch and sails better with equally good accomodation. I used to sail a lot with a friend who had one - performance is "adequate" rather than startling but it is adequate. Lovely boats.

Now, on the round bilge carvel side of things, two stand out for me - one is the Kylix, a 27 footer which was the last design that he built for himself, again raised deck and loads of room below, and pretty good sailing qualities. These were built as a standard design in iroko to Lloyds + 100A1 by Bure Marine in Lowestoft - good boat to look out for.

The other - the real long distance job in MG's designs, is of course the Good Hope, which is a pretty big boat, but excellent.

Hope this helps!

[Boatsmith]

Wharrams tiki 30 is a pretty awesme boat for cruising Bahamas, Florida, Gulf coast. Immense deck space, lots of interior volume, (but split into seperate hulls) and you can park it on the beach. At 2' 1" draft if you hit the bottom get off and push. David

[kenjamin]

Some joker:D did a heck of a good job on this one shown at the Mystic WoodenBoat Show this year:

http://ford.physics.fsu.edu/Tiki1348.jpg

Let me know, Boatsmith, if you want the image in full resolution.

How does she sail???

Fair winds, kenjamin

[Rigadog]

nice Tiki. Yes that would be a good boat for the Bahamas. I've always been shy of the idea of building a boat twice (two hulls), but maybe that's not logical since we get boat by the pound either by money or sweat.