Lower cost boat construction

[EZguine]

I have read through these forums for the last few weeks with great enthusiasm and interest. Making a small plywood boat is something I would like to try. I used to make polyester and acrylic resin sockets for amputees and build artifical arms and legs. I am comfortable working with resins and a hobbyist woodworker .

This is my big problem at the moment. I understand using resin and fiberglass for stitch and glue methods for a strong and long lasting boat but it will cost 4 or 5 hundred dollars to "Try my hand" at small plywood boatbuilding. I'd spend that on something I know I would be sucessful in doing but for experimentation and proof of concept work that money is hard for me to part with. Even harder for the wife's budgetary concerns.

I've searched through the forums, and quite extensively on Google but have had little luck. Is there another method of building a 'temporary' plywood boat (Such as the JEM free pontoon plans) without using epoxy and fiberglass, just maybe some type of construction adhesive and paint.

Much thanks in advance
Kenny in Philly

[outofthenorm]

Hello Kenny, and welcome. To answer your question as simply as possible - Yes, absolutely there are inexpensive ways. Boats were built on beaches and under trees out of local materials for a long time before epoxy, fibreglass - and plywood for that matter - came along. Any simple single-chine boat can be built with inexpensive plywood, PL premium construction adhesive and a box of ring nails and protected by a few coats of good exterior paint. All you have to do is replace the stitch and glue, filleted type joints with cleats, stringers and chines of small section wood.

What do you give up? Longevity of the boat (maybe). A fancy finish (maybe). The cost and complexity of epoxy (definitely). What do you get? A real boatbuilding experience that doesn't take a life time and doesn't cost an arm and a leg. The boat might be a bit heavier than a perfect build, but it will be done faster and the skills learned will be real.

It's just my opinion of course, and others might disagree, but there it is.

- Norm

[Tom Robb]

ACX plywood, construction adhesive, deck screws and paint comes to mind. Not as much cash commitment; probably not as much of a boat either, but if the experiment doesn't satisfy you, you learned something at least.

The perfect can be regarded as the enemy of the good.

Good Enough may be a reasonable starting place. The next one (if there is a next one) will be better.

Did you see the Lumber Yard Skiff WB published a few issues ago?

[jimmy lee]

Kenny, 3M5200 adhesive is good for sealing wood planks. It is cheaper, and building a skiff say 14 feet is not exspensive. I built the Lumberyard Skiff, from Woodenboat magazine, in the Getting started in boats, section of the magazine. My wood and supplies did not cost $500, three years ago.
The skiff was built from pine boards from the Home Depot Store. She sits on a trailer in between fishing and sailing outings. Good Luck. Jimmy Lee.

[kenjamin]

I just bought plans for Ross Lillistone's Flint which is a stitch and glue rowboat which is light enough to possibly cartop (110lbs.) and could take you and your wife on many a rowing adventure and will also take an electric trolling motor or very small gas outboard (2HP). The directions are very clear and easy to follow and the plans are only $60 US. It takes about 4 sheets of plywood and probably a couple of gallons of epoxy resin. It has integral flotation chambers for safety. I think it may be a good little verstile boat for the money and I doubt if you could find a simpler boat to build.

http://ford.physics.fsu.edu/Flint.jpg

http://www.baysidewoodenboats.com.au/

With your experience with resin, it should be a pretty easy project – not experimental or temporary and you'll end up with a great little boat. Go for it, dude! ;)

[Bob Cleek]

I'd expect that just about any small boat built traditionally from "real" wood will cost less in materials than any comparable plywood and epoxy model, and without the design and shape limitations imposed by plywood's inability to form compound curves. While the marketing types don't want you to know it, plywood is a lot more expensive than honest wood, both in initial price as well, and more so, in terms of off-cut waste. It may take you a bit more effort to find a small sawyer who can provide you with the raw stock you need, but for a small boat, you won't need much.

The advantage of "snitch and goo" is that you don't have to learn the skills to work real wood and can build it faster... but at the price of relatively expensive materials. The "cost" of the traditionally built boat is in your own time... which as amateurs, is what it is all about for us anyway. (If you just want a boat... buy a used one already built.)

Oh, and the traditionally built boat, if built carefully, will generally last much longer than the plywood boat and be far easier to maintain and repair... and be worth a whole lot more if you ever want to sell it.

These truths the epoxy and plywood manufacturers' associations and the guys who sell "quick and dirty boat plans" to the unsuspecting uninitiated won't ever tell you.

[jclays]

EZ take a look at the plans from Shoestring Shipyard. Check out the frugal skiff or any of their smaller boats. They are designed to be made out of plywood using conventional constructions with avarage skills. Ill be starting the 12ft frugal skiff and already have the plans. It is straight forward. Materials can be as simple as ACX plywood and 2x4's or as fancy as you would want to splurge for wood. It is not stich and glue. Look at their tutorial page.

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

Every method has it's disadvantages. Stitch & Glue hulls tend to be lighter stiffer and able to survive with less maintainence. Glue & Screw hulls can be cheaper, because the glue is cheaper and recycled lumber can be used, but all the fasteners present points of entry for water if they are not well sealed.
Unfortunately, the days of really cheap homebuilts are long gone. Today "real cheap" usually means "real small" unless you know how to make long pieces out of short pieces.
The cheapest thing going is a "skin on frame", i.e. fabric covered, kayak.
Here are more than a hundred free boat plans .
http://www.svensons.com/boat/

[TerryLL]

Kenny,
Welcome.
When I was in grade school I helped my father build an 8' pram, our first boatbulding project. We used 3/8 fir plywood, Weldwood plastic resin glue, galvanized nails, and enamel house paint. It was just narrow enough to slide in the back of our '57 Plymouth station wagon. It turned out pretty good and I was still using it 15 years later. So, yes, there are less expensive routes than epoxy and $150 a sheet plywood.

[Tar Devil]

Kenny, I built this for about 150 bucks (or less), got everything except epoxy from one Big Box store..

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff298/TarDevil/Boats/Ez%20Canoe/100_0619-1.jpg

Used a little epoxy on the chines and glassing the bottom. Thing is, I DON'T consider it temporary, and intend to care for it and keep it a long time.

It can be done, Dude.

[Bob Smalser]

Depending where you are, the notion that plywood equates to low cost can be mistaken.

These Doug Fir 2X12's are 18' long and cost $.60 a BF today at Parker Lumber in Bremerton. Two of them @$21.60 would provide the complete VG heartwood frame and transom for a 14' skiff.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/18208631/286276040.jpg

Depending on where you live, either cedar or cypress fencing stock or Eastern White Pine, Sassafras, Catalpa or other woods can be had in the $1.00/bf range and up. But you don't need a lot of it, either. Below you're looking at enough to build three, 14' skiffs.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3075040/53606929.jpg

It takes more tools to build without plywood, and it's slower.....but it doesn't have to be more expensive.

[outofthenorm]

These Doug Fir 2X12's are 18' long and cost $.60 a BF today at Parker Lumber in Bremerton.

That makes me nuts. The best local price for good 8/4 DF is $4.55 a BF! #2 white pine costs more than a buck a BF.

I gotta move closer to the forest.

- Norm

[boylesboats]

Cheapest boats I ever built would be pirogues...
Flat skiffs would be reasonable, depending on what materials being used...

[S B]

Go to the public library, there are probably dozens of books with plans, in them, for construction of plywood boats before the advent of epoxy. Find one you can bang together with hammer and nails. It will most likely last 1/2 doz. years before it becomes unfit to step onboard. By that time you will have honed your skills and increased the depth of your pocket. Good luck.

[abbyj]

I have read through these forums for the last few weeks with great enthusiasm and interest. Making a small plywood boat is something I would like to try. I used to make polyester and acrylic resin sockets for amputees and build artifical arms and legs. I am comfortable working with resins and a hobbyist woodworker .

This is my big problem at the moment. I understand using resin and fiberglass for stitch and glue methods for a strong and long lasting boat but it will cost 4 or 5 hundred dollars to "Try my hand" at small plywood boatbuilding. I'd spend that on something I know I would be sucessful in doing but for experimentation and proof of concept work that money is hard for me to part with. Even harder for the wife's budgetary concerns.

I've searched through the forums, and quite extensively on Google but have had little luck. Is there another method of building a 'temporary' plywood boat (Such as the JEM free pontoon plans) without using epoxy and fiberglass, just maybe some type of construction adhesive and paint.

Much thanks in advance
Kenny in Philly

Kenny, check out the Glen-L Website (http://www.glen-l.com/) and Forum (http://www.glen-l.com/). They have plenty of plans in plywood, and many being built with non-epoxy adhesives.

[Rigadog]

Do you like wine?

Bobbing Through Portugal on Boat Made of Wine Corks

By Whitney Duncan
National Geographic Adventure magazine (http://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/)

September 19, 2002
This summer, John Pollack and Garth Goldstein took an old trade (shipbuilding), a basic principle (buoyancy), and created an ingenious, two-ton, 27-foot craft made of (what else) 165,321 corks. Confident that their vessel was of sound design, the two set sail from the northern Portuguese city of Barca d'Alva, near the Spanish border, where hundreds of Portuguese gathered to watch them embark upon an improbable, 17-day journey on the Douro River.

[jclays]

As i've posted above check out Shoe String Shipyard's plans they are conventional screw and glue plywood skiffs or look at Howard Payson's Instant Boats book.

[kenjamin]

Kenny,

Here's a link to the book "Building the New Instant Boats" by Harold "Dynamite" Payson:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0071559663/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-link

One thing to keep in mind is that modern 1/4" ply stitch and glue designs can be light and strong enough to car top so you might be able to avoid the expense of a trailer. What kind of vehicle do you own?

If you go with a stitch and glue design, don't use cheap ply because it is a false savings over the long run. Good luck with your choice.

[bateaux]

Kenny - MDO plywood @ $45 a sheet, stainless deck screws, salt-treated framing and 3M 5200 gets you on the water - and you get to build another boat in 10 years. Our 24' draketail sharpie under construction (we launch on October 15) cost about $800 for MDO, salt-treated framing, and styainless screws. You can build a 12 ' skiff for maybe $500, or just buy a Bevin's Skiff kit pre-cut from Alexandria Seaport foundation for around $800 - a Bevin's fits in the back of a pick-up very well.

PS: Harbor Sales in Maryland stocks the MDO plywood at the warehouse, it'll save $$$$ - a 2 hour ride from Philly.

http://www.redlionstudio.com/radcliffecreekseadogs/

[dingbat]

Having the same trepidations as you Kenny, I decided to go the one quater the size and one tenth the cost route. My kid was asking me for an R/C boat like I built for her aunt anyway so I'm killing two birds with one block plane. Though small, ond not accurate in every sense (like using ca glue where I'd use fastners on a full sized boat), it is deffinately helping to clear most of the doubts and foggy areas before taking on the real deal.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i99/neclassic/LittleBoat002.jpg

[Steve Lansdowne]

One factor I'll mention is how and where the boat will be stored. Mine are up high in my garage and not used more than maybe 10 times a year. They'll last a long time. On the other hand, if they were stored outside or in the water, that story might change.

See www.duckworksmagazine.com for various amateur builder articles on home-built boats, many of which use Big Box materials and don't cost much. Some folks even pride themselves on how little they spend. Many 'marine' products are quite expensive, but if you go with, say, acrylic latex house paint rather than 'marine' paint, you'll save a bundle.

[Thermo]

I did this one from mostly $10-a-sheet luan ply from Lowes.
No epoxy, no glass. Just tube construction adhesive (PL Premium), nails, some woodglue for the inwales. Covered in oil enamel paint & touched up now and then.

External chine log, butt blocks, can't get much cheaper for a $150 total cost 11 foot boat.

Plans were even free here:
http://www.simplicityboats.com/summerbreezetemp.html

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s12/smagmags/dorseypond.jpg



http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s12/smagmags/launch.jpg

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s12/smagmags/bowseat.jpg

[BrianM]

I did this one from mostly $10-a-sheet luan ply from Lowes.
No epoxy, no glass. Just tube construction adhesive (PL Premium), nails, some woodglue for the inwales. Covered in oil enamel paint & touched up now and then.

External chine log, butt blocks, can't get much cheaper for a $150 total cost 11 foot boat.

Plans were even free here:
http://www.simplicityboats.com/summerbreezetemp.html

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s12/smagmags/dorseypond.jpg



http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s12/smagmags/launch.jpg

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s12/smagmags/bowseat.jpg

Thermo, did you double up the door skins for the hull sides and bottom? If so, what did you use to glue them together.

I've torn Lowes door skins with my bare hands so I'm not keen on their strength or lack thereof.

[Thermo]

Thermo, did you double up the door skins for the hull sides and bottom? If so, what did you use to glue them together.

I've torn Lowes door skins with my bare hands so I'm not keen on their strength or lack thereof.

Nah, that's why I said "mostly" from 1/4 luan. Because I wasn't too keen on my feet going through, I used 3/8" sheathing ply for the bottom.

The sides I 'strengthened' with gunnels and inwales, a big aft airbox, a fat breasthook, and hefty framing inside the front seat/airbox. It's also got a nice bend to it that stiffens it up well.

[ishmael]

I"'d expect that just about any small boat built traditionally from "real" wood will cost less in materials than any comparable plywood and epoxy model"

What Cleek, and others, said. Not knowing where you live it's a bit difficult to say, but hunting out small sawyers you can probably round up the materials for a small boat built with solid wood for lower expense. Plus, for all ply and epoxy's recent popularity building a boat of cedar, pine and oak is a much more pleasant experience. Dealing with the googe, though it seems to suit some people, gets old after a bit in my book. Gawd, you've got to get suited up, and every tool in the shop gets sticky or ugly.

Two cents. Good luck.

[abbyj]

Nah, that's why I said "mostly" from 1/4 luan. Because I wasn't too keen on my feet going through, I used 3/8" sheathing ply for the bottom.

The sides I 'strengthened' with gunnels and inwales, a big aft airbox, a fat breasthook, and hefty framing inside the front seat/airbox. It's also got a nice bend to it that stiffens it up well.

No need to justify anything. Something tells me that little girl only see's a "yacht" that her father built using wood, glue, and a bunch of PVC clamps:D

[switters]

Every method has it's disadvantages. Stitch & Glue hulls tend to be lighter stiffer and able to survive with less maintainence. Glue & Screw hulls can be cheaper, because the glue is cheaper and recycled lumber can be used, but all the fasteners present points of entry for water if they are not well sealed.
Unfortunately, the days of really cheap homebuilts are long gone. Today "real cheap" usually means "real small" unless you know how to make long pieces out of short pieces.
The cheapest thing going is a "skin on frame", i.e. fabric covered, kayak.
Here are more than a hundred free boat plans .
http://www.svensons.com/boat/

that site rocks and I have been fishing for free plans for over a year.
good post.

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

that site rocks and I have been fishing for free plans for over a year.
good post.

Hallaluea! Finally found somebody who inhabits the cheap seats like I do!
I spent a lot of time on the Svenson and had a lot of fun poking around among the small boats but never built from any of the-plans. Maybe next year.

[Thad Van Gilder]

With local cedar and galvanized nails, I can built a 14 foot jersey garvey for about 200 dollars.

You can't built anything in plywood that cheap!!!!!!!!

-Thad

[Captain Blight]

I've been going up to the local remodeler's center (not a Borg store, local-owned) and buying a couple sticks of CVG Douglas-fir porch flooring every payday. They're just under 3/4"x4", I'm getting mine in 12' sticks for about $15 per. Some of it is really impressive, ring counts in the 40-45 per inch range with no appreciable runout. I'm thinking it can become the bottom of a Sundance within the next couple years....

[kengrome]

With local cedar and galvanized nails, I can built a 14 foot jersey garvey for about 200 dollars. You can't built anything in plywood that cheap!!!!!!!!I can, but I live on the other side of the world where plywood costs less -- like 4 sheets of 3/8 inch marine ply for $50 ... :)

Do you have any pictures of a jersey garvey you've built that you can post? I'm kind of interested in the hull shape since I just designed my own garvey / pram style boat and I'd like to see how similar they are.

[Thad Van Gilder]

I can email you pictures of a 9 foot garvey I just made for a dinghy

I used a bow transom... on largers garvies, I just run the bottom planking up to a triangular frame piece at the sheer.

Thad
sailorguy26f2@hotmail.com

[pila]

I built three boats from the plans that are now "free", in the 50s, one outboard and two inboards. I bought the full sized plan sheets though instead of using the magazine plans. They were all Wm Jackson designs.
Many small boats were built in those days just after WW2, with non-marine ply, and plain steel hardware.They likely didn't last very long.