Would you humour me?

[novapamela]

Hi all,

I'm new to the board. Admittedly, this is part of "research" for me, but I come to you also out of admiration. I love a beautiful wooden boat. Having said that, at the moment, I'm interested in something less than "beautiful", namely something dilapidated yet, with elbow grease, still seaworthy.

Please, would you humour me and throw in your two cents (I'm sure there's a sailing term I could use here if I knew one) if you have the time? I should probably mention that I'm writing a fictional story and my limited experience (I'm familiar with a canoe, a kayak and vaguely with a twin engine trawler) just doesn't provide for much fodder on the subject. So, with that, here I go:

1) What is the largest wood sailboat that could be sailed solo long distance (would a Stevens 'S' Class Sloop do the trick http://museum.gov.ns.ca/mma/AtoZ/valkyrie.html) ?
2) What are the optimal conditions for sailing?
3) What conditions make sailing most fun (and do those conditions ever border on dangerous/risky)?
4) What part, when suddenly damaged/lost would make sailing riskier yet would still allow you to get back to shore, say, a few miles away?
5) How long would it take - with concerted effort - to replace an entire deck on a ~29' sloop?

Alright. I don't want to barrage!

Thank you kindly,

Pamela

[Thorne]

You will want to be much more specific -- "wood sailboat" covers a multitude of designs both ultra-modern and traditional.

1. 70-80'
2. Sailing what and where? Dinghy = 10knots, Circumnavigator = 20knots.
3. Smooth seas and steady, strong winds. Yes.
4. Many parts, including rudder, bowsprit, masts....
5. In a shop or a desert island? Totally depends on the design and materials of the sloop.

[Hwyl]

Pamela, ask Eamonn at the museum the question about the deck, he used to be quite approachable.My ballpark answer would be a month but I've a 16 foot kayak in my basement without a deck for 7 years or so.

A general answer to all your questions is to get some more sailing time. I guess you're in NS, so your season is almost over, but asking at any yacht club will get you in.

Don't get involved with a reconstruction project until you know if you like sailing.

[Tom Hunter]

1) What is the largest wood sailboat that could be sailed solo long distance (would a Stevens 'S' Class Sloop do the trick http://museum.gov.ns.ca/mma/AtoZ/valkyrie.html (http://museum.gov.ns.ca/mma/AtoZ/valkyrie.html)) ?

I agree with Thorne, 70 -80' split rig either a schooner or a ketch. You would have to be a big tough guy, but there are newspaper stories from the 1880s and 90s of captains who sailed their cargo schooners alone.

I think the S class is a bit small. Read Joshua Slocum, he sailed around the world solo, and sailed all the time on a somewhat larger boat. Biggest is not neccissarily best.

2) What are the optimal conditions for sailing?

Force three or maybe four, carribean sea, adoring babe for crew, broad reaching for the next port. I've never managed more than two of those at a time, but that's optimal.

3) What conditions make sailing most fun (and do those conditions ever border on dangerous/risky)?

How is this question different from 2?

4) What part, when suddenly damaged/lost would make sailing riskier yet would still allow you to get back to shore, say, a few miles away?

There are people on this board who can fix almost anything, under very difficult conditions. If my boom broke that would be a PITA but it would not increase risk. Risk increases most if the damaged/lost is the captain's mind. Then you are in trouble.

5) How long would it take - with concerted effort - to replace an entire deck on a ~29' sloop?

Not sure, I've never done more than part of a deck and I work slow.

Good luck, hope the answers are helpful

[Jay Greer]

The largest boat I have single handed is the 59' Herreshoff Bounty Ketch "Tioga". Albeit it was only to and from Catalina Island. With an auto pilot steering, it was no problem to handle the necessary deck work. The Bounty Ketches are a joy to sail and like their big sister "Ticonderoga" the can deliver some astounding speeds under the right conditions. I have seen fifteen kts. on a reach!
Jay

[Woxbox]

Well, the answers above are all spot on in my experience. As far as a damaged item, loss of the rudder is the most likely thing that would make sailing hard but not impossible. Most boats can be sailed without a rudder, but if your fiction is to be good, you'd best go out with a buddy that has a boat and try sailing it without touching the tiller or wheel.
The rudder itself might be ripped off the boat, but more likely is that the tiller comes loose or breaks, or the mechancial linkage between wheel and rudder breaks.

[paladin]

I'll try to keep things in order.....
I have sailed alone around the world in a 31 foot boat, a 38 foot boat and a 45 foot boat......The 45 was most comfortable, and I was very much blessed with near perfect weather rounding Cape Horn and the Cape of Good Hope....
Optimal sailing conditions...long, low waves (rollers in the South Pacific, light seas in Atlantic or Indian Ocean) waves 2-3 feet, winds 15-20 miles per hour, direction steady...
3) The most fun conditions...12-15 mph winds, calm seas, gives time to catch up on varnish or small repairs at sea, aor drop a drogue over and take a swim mid ocean.
4)Damaged rudder or steering mechanism, or damage to wind vane/autopilot would require constant attention at the helm and a well balanced boat to sail without normal steering. Being knocked down and the loss of a spar is one of the worse things to have to jury rig.
5)Replacing a deck would not be done at sea, although a sizable hole could be repaired. I kept 4 large 80 cube air tanks and one small air tank of 60 cubes on board for scuba diving.....I also have an emergency low port takeoff that I can attach a small pneumatic staple gun to the port, using plywood panels and some of the interior cabinetry doors, I could staple the doors down with a RTV compound for seal and cover large holes in decks in an emergency, and in fact covered a hole near the bow after hitting a submerged object in the run from Madagascar to Johannesburg, repaired at sea, and sailed for another month before putting in for proper repairs. Repair was still holding.

[ishmael]

Good answers, all.

I'll just add that going out on the water in any boat is inherently risky. If you lose it, sink it, water isn't all that copacetic to humans. It can be done safely, but you never eliminate all risk. Sinking is just one of them.

Another common damage on a sailboat is dismasting. While that's often due to a lack of attention to the rig, it can happen to the best maintained boat.

And what Hwl said. Go cadge some rides on boats. Most of the sailing cadre is open to that, and often is looking for crew. That will teach you with just a few sails more than our thoughts. It does depend a bit on who you're sailing with. A go getter looking to win today's jaunt in their class probably isn't the best choice, at least for the first few times. Or sail a small boat on your own. What's the reason for your size question? I learned initially on Sailfish and Sunfish. Great little boats for learning on.

Sailing a boat well is one of the finest things you can do in this world. The risk is manageable and well worth it. It's at turns peaceful, exhilarating, challenging and occasionally terrifying. Sort of like life. LOL.

Welcome, BTW. And good luck.

P.S. There are a lot of good books on this, but I'm fond of Roger Taylor's. His "Knowing the Ropes" and "The Elements of Seamanship" (I think I have those titles correct without looking in my bookcase) are both first rate.

[Kaa]

1) What is the largest wood sailboat that could be sailed solo long distance?

A modern sailboat -- with computer-controlled winches and such -- basically no limit on length. In traditional sailboats the limit is how big a sail can one man control. I agree that a 70'-80' schooner or ketch is viable to single-hand.

2) What are the optimal conditions for sailing?

Moderately strong, steady wind and not much waves -- or steady regular rollers.

3) What conditions make sailing most fun (and do those conditions ever border on dangerous/risky)?

Strong wind and moderate waves, but it depends. Fun is a personal thing -- some might be most happy when ghosting on mirror-still water at dawn...

4) What part, when suddenly damaged/lost would make sailing riskier yet would still allow you to get back to shore, say, a few miles away?

Rudder and/or tiller, I guess. Boats can be steered using sails alone, but your options and freedom to manoeuvre become much more limited.

5) How long would it take - with concerted effort - to replace an entire deck on a ~29' sloop?

Um -- at sea or in port? By how many people? As a makeshift repair or doing the job properly? It all depends.

Kaa

[outofthenorm]

1) What is the largest wood sailboat that could be sailed solo long distance (would a Stevens 'S' Class Sloop do the trick http://museum.gov.ns.ca/mma/AtoZ/valkyrie.html) ?

The upper limit is pretty open, but the best way to define it is to ask what's the largest sail and the largest anchor the character can handle. If the hero is a tiny female, it's a smaller boat than could be handled by a 6 ft 4 ex football player. The S class sloop would likely be considered to be the wrong sort of boat for solo long distance. 2 reasons: relatively lightly built and relatively limited capacity for stores and gear. If you loaded up that hull with enough food water and gear for , say, 4 months, it would be so low in the water it would be (best case) slow as heck or (worst case) unseaworthy.

What are the optimal conditions for sailing?

In general I'd say moderate to brisk winds going in the direction you want to go. The boat will go at its best speed, you're going with the waves, not against them, and the motion is easier - there's lots of it, but it's less harsh and dramatic than going to windward. Running and reaching is what most passage makers want.

3) What conditions make sailing most fun (and do those conditions ever border on dangerous/risky)?

The most fun is entirely subjective, as you can tell fron the great answers above. Sometimes the most fun is when there is just a bit more wind than you're comfortable with - not too much, but enough that the boat is performing at her absolute maximum and conditions are keeping you right on your toes - you're hyper alert, watching everything, listening to everything. It's a great rush to be on the edge - provided you have the right boat under you. That's when makeshift repairs (as in Q #5) would worry you the most.

4) What part, when suddenly damaged/lost would make sailing riskier yet would still allow you to get back to shore, say, a few miles away?

Been said above. In general, it's the loss of something that won't sink you - like part of the the rig, a rudder, your self steering, a failure or damage to some structure above the water, like the loss of a hatch or broken ports from a knockdown or an overwhelming wave, for instance. It could also be something like losing your water supply, or suffering an injury such as a broken bone.

5) How long would it take - with concerted effort - to replace an entire deck on a ~29' sloop?

Quick and dirty, absolutely has to happen or there will be dire consequences? - 5-7 days, maybe a bit less, for a skilled, experienced person - but it would be ugly, rough, and definitely not a "yacht" finish. It would keep the water out, but you'd worry about it every second. Three weeks minimum for a decent, but maybe not perfect job. A proper job, good as new, is open ended - many weeks or months.


- Norm

[outofthenorm]

One more thing - I agree with Ishmael on Roger Taylor's "Elements of Seamanship". If you could read just one book, it's a pretty good one for getting the flavour right. His chapter on "Keeping a civil tongue in your head." is superb for getting the language right.

- Norm

[novapamela]

Good day all,

I am grateful for your answers, suggestions, personal stories, and in some ways overwhelmed - 70-80' Really?! Wow. I had no idea ...

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

My hero is a Bluenoser, a poor one at that, a capable woodworker with boatbuilding experience and a decent sailor who buys/owns a dilapidated wooden sailboat (of some kind) and wants to sail from Nova Scotia - let's say Lunenburg (my hometown) - to the BVIs and back, solo. He should (in my story) do most of the repairs single handed, otherwise with the help of one friend. Now why I chose to write a story based in NS when I am on a North American 'tour', well, I don't know ... Murphy's Law that the story struck me when it did, on the other side of the country. But I'm too enthusiastic about this story to leave it for my NS return in a year's time or more.

In lieu of hanging out at the Fisheries Museum of the Atlantic (with Cliff, Capt. Mitchell, etc.), this is proving a rewarding way to research - look at the rich, varied and patient responses already! :D

I will definitely act on many of your suggestions and I hope you won't mind, after I've reread and absorbed your words, if I follow up with more questions.

My sincerest thanks,

Pamela

P.S. - Feel free at any time, if you're feeling generous, to propose ideas or other considerations I haven't touched on.

[Woxbox]

Well, Pamela, you may well have read Farley Mowat's "The Boat Who Wouldn't Float." But if you haven't, it's a must. I have no idea how much of it is truth and how much exageration and fabrication, but I'm sure you'll find it highly entertaining as well as informative. And yes, it starts with the purchase of a dilapidated sailboat up that way.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

Read "Once is Enough by Miles Smeeton, or High Endeavour - AND Trekka by Guzwell.

The accounts of the pitch-pole dismasting and limp to Chile is epic stuff.

[paladin]

and....read a little about Bernard Motissier and some of his adventures when soloing around the world, Robin Knox-Johnson is another

[Paul Pless]

and... Tania Aebi's Maiden Voyage,
and... Lyn and Larry Pardey's books,
and anything you can on the forum by the likes of Gareth and Chuck.;)

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Since you are a novelist, you may find it convenient to read some fictional descriptions of what you have in mind. Here are three English novels, all in print... One is the best description yet penned of what "small boat cruising" is all about as seen by an outsider (its also a spy story, with a cracking good plot):

"The Riddle of the Sands" - Erskine Childers, 1903?

This one is "officially" a children's book, though a lot of adults read it - it contains as good a description of a yacht at sea as you will find:

"We Didn't Mean to Go to Sea" - Arthur Ransome, 1938?

and one is an excellent description of a long voyage in a yacht:

"Trustee from the Toolroom" - Neville Shute - 1956??

[Michael s/v Sannyasin]

1) What is the largest wood sailboat that could be sailed solo long distance (would a Stevens 'S' Class Sloop do the trick http://museum.gov.ns.ca/mma/AtoZ/valkyrie.html) ?

Most solo sailors wouldn't want to go for the largest boat, because every foot of length increases the difficulty and expense of the voyage. Sir Frances Chichester sailed a 54 foot wooden ketch and became the first known person to circumnavigate the globe with only one stop. See Gypsy Moth IV Circles the World for more info.

A friend of mine is (now) single-handing his 70' gaff-rigged schooner (slowly) around the world. The hull isn't wood, but in most other ways, a very traditional schooner. I sure wouldn't want to sail something that big alone. See http://www.1000Days.net for more info.

Single-handed on a large boat, a schooner would make a logical choice. Since it has more masts, each sail tends to be smaller and so more easily managed single or short handed.


2) What are the optimal conditions for sailing?


There is an old saying that "Gentlemen Never Sail to Weather", which means that it is much more pleasant to sail with the wind behind you (not necessarily directly behind you, but on a broad reach).

Sailing on a broad reach in the trade winds is usually reported to be the optimal conditions for sailing.


3) What conditions make sailing most fun (and do those conditions ever border on dangerous/risky)?


Our own John B could probably tell you about that... here is one of his YouTubes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXhm8UgR2Ts


4) What part, when suddenly damaged/lost would make sailing riskier yet would still allow you to get back to shore, say, a few miles away?


As you might imagine, the climax of many sailing adventures is the story of some catastrophy and the crew's fight to recover. In Joshua Slocum's book, Sailing Alone Around the World, he broke his boom, and simply cut off the end and re-cut his sail to fit.

In Yves Gelinas' film Jean du Sud Around the World his boat is knocked down and his aluminium mast is snapped in half. He manages to "jury-rig" a mast (perhaps using the boom as a mast) and make it to shore.

I've read other accounts of people losing their rudder, and being forced to steer the boat by balancing the sails and/or trailing warps (long pieces of rope) and/or buckets to cause drag on one side of the boat or another... this gets much more dangerous as you near shore, so, one would generally call for help once within proximity.

I don't know anything about decking a boat :-)

Just wanted to throw out some references that might help your research. Have fun!