Starting A Boat Building Project With School Kids

[wwaterman]

Hey folks,

I've begun the planning process for a scheme of mine: Building a simple boat with school kids. I'm currently one of those post-undergraduate, heavily indebted young people that needs to go BACK to college to be able to earn a decent wage (liberal arts, I love you, but you don't make me the green paper stuff). In the interim of my journey back to school, I'm avoiding my college loan payments by doing a 6-month stint with AmeriCorps (think national branch of Peace Corps).

Anyway, for my final project, I've decided to build a boat with school kids in the metropolis known as Chino Valley, Arizona. Just kidding. This is not a metropolis, but a farm town outside of Prescott, Arizona (growing mountain town in Arizona). It's a big deal for this kids to be hands-on in building a boat; these kids are not from Connecticut, uhm-kay (I grew up in the fine state of CT).

Finally, when the boat is complete, it will be raffled off (think poor family going home with a boat for $5 or $10) and the money raised will go to youth program funds at the town's local Parks and Recreation.

I've already got space (a great outdoor 20' x 20' pavilion) from Parks and Recreation.

Now: The design. I've been thinking basic dory, but I'd like to get some more thoughts. I only have 2 - 3 months to do it and the kids will be working with me every Saturday beginning (probably) after Thanksgiving. We've set the completion date at the end of January.

Thoughts, anyone?

[Thorne]

At least one Forumite has done something very similar, so let's see what they say.

You'll probably need to avoid the use of ANY epoxy to meet VOC and general safety requirements, so PL Premium and good acrylic latex paint should be part of the boat design choice. My friends up in Eureka built a Michalak Piccup Pram at a wood products show, but it proved to be a bit more boat than they had time to build during the event, so something simpler/smaller is probably a good idea.

[Darren McClelland]

I am building a sabatina dingy with my students this year , in the past I built the six hour canoe and three rowboats using underlay plywood, ring nails and PL glue then painted them with donated latex house paint. I also have built cedar strip canoes and three Mont Plattford snowshoe skin on frame single canoes. Kids love this stuff and will impress you with their work ethic and skills.

Good Luck Darren

See Dingy photos in building and repair

[LarryR]

Darren,

I tried a search for the Mont Plattford canoe but had no luck. Would you have a link or a cite for more information?

Very respectfully,
Larry

[Tom Robb]

What sort of water anywhere near Prescott would the boat get used upon? The design would need to be reasonable for its home waters if sold to locals.
I'd also give some thought to not underestimating the kids. It couldn't hurt to set the goal high enough to inspire them, i.e., no crude junk.

[Canoez]

Darren,

I tried a search for the Mont Plattford canoe but had no luck. Would you have a link or a cite for more information?

Very respectfully,
Larry

Larry, It's Platt Monfort. He's since passed away, but his business continues. It's Geodesic AiroLITE boats (http://gaboats.com/).

[wwaterman]

Agreed, Tom. Our home waters are:

-Lake Mead/Lake Powell and all the other Colorado River/Lakes
-Small town lakes

This boat, although, would be more suited for the latter: The small town lakes.

I'm thinking simple canoe, but not the 6-hour (but I'd be open for persuasion).

Anything a little nicer than the 6-hour?

[wwaterman]

I'm thinking I will, in fact, start building a "6-hour Canoe" with these kids.

Anyone know of a good source for online/bought plans?

[nomad]

I would suggest a Beven Skiff. My boat club has built piles of these at the Vancover wooden boat show. They have proven to be a good choice for working with kids. Any good flat bootom skiff design could work well. I would echo the non-toxic comments already made.
I've done quite a bit of skin-on-frame building with kids also. Note the skin canoe article in the current edition of WB. Pretty close to the Platt canoes without the kevlar tape.

Mark Reuten
www.nomadboatbuilding.com

[switters]

plans online,


http://home.clara.net/gmatkin/design.htm



one sheet skiff, you could build more than one possibly, and they make great bookcases when you need to store them for the winter.

[wwaterman]

Switter and Nomad, thanks for the thoughts.

Switter -- could you post the exact link to the one-sheet skiff on that page? There are a couple one-sheeters...

[rbj37]

How old are these kids? How about two or three PDR racers and race?

[mcdenny]

Here is a thread about a similar project I did in 2006. http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57677 Out of the twenty or so high school kids who raised their hand when my wife (their teacher) asked who would be interested we actually got about 10 to show up once, 6 who came occasionally and 3 or 4 who came almost every time.

I chose a CLC Mill Creek 13 kit as we built the boat in a storage room in the school. The noise & mess of sawing would not have been welcome and I wasn't thrilled with hauling power tools back and forth.

A kit pretty much insures you end up with a decent boat and the plans and instruction book let the kids figure out some of the steps on their own. Downside is you could build the same boat with lumber yard wood for a lot less $$$.

Using PL Premium (great stuff, BTW) and no fiberglass or epoxy will save you lots of time & money.

The project took much longer than I estimated. Having to stop and start slows you down and since the point is to have the kids build it, not you, you have to let them. Beginner's skills and short attention spans will slow you down too.

The boat is also light enough to car top - a feature that helps people envision what they would do with the boat if they won.

Good luck and thanks for your service to America. I hope there will be many more young people following in your foot steps in the coming years.

[David W Pratt]

Golucester Gull is fun.
Requires some lofting to make the molds, which is a teachable moment.
I built one last winter, cost $420, but $90 was strong back and molds which could be reused. Used exterior ply and filled knot holes w epoxy.
Rows real nice.
Plans were $33 from Dynamite Payson in Thomaston Maine.
Good luck.

[switters]

http://www3.sympatico.ca/herbert.mcleod/skiff.htm

Herb's one sheet skiff. Let me know if you build one or more and I can give you one or two tips on getting the sides bent on the stem that will make life easier for you.

[Darren McClelland]

Sorry for the mis information on the name , my memory ain;t what it used to be.

The advantage of the six hour canoe is that it is cheap and easy to build there is a good article in woodenboat explaining the construction and a booklet. if you are trying to do multiple boats it works well. the skiff we built came from edwin monks book on woodenboats and we converted the dory planks to plywood and they went together with two molds and a windlass for the transom, very simple basic handtools and a jig saw is all that is needed.

Good luck Darren

[wwaterman]

Alright, I've narrowed the boat down to, instead of a 6-hour canoe, I've officially decided to go with a small to medium-sized skiff (MAYBE I can fit this into two sheets of ply? Sounds like I'm getting to three sheets of ply, but still basic). I want a small family (2 adults 1 child) to be able to go out on our lakes.

I'm talking basic here folks. So far I've seen Beven Skiff, Gloucester Gull, and a CLC kit.

I know there's got to be a skiff out there that's the "perfect" (how did I manage my way back to this classic argument?) blend of simple construction, short building time, and able to displace approx. 400 - 500 pounds (more like the latter) and able to be car-topped.

Isn't there a tender out there that all you salty ol' goats think of first that everyone has built?

I know I'm over simplifying, but think of the boat that you suggest to the: "Hi, I'm a first-time builder and I really want to build a 37-foot catamaran - and I really think I can do it - but I'd like to get some more suggestions."

Which simple skiff do you point them to?

Thanks folks.

[switters]

Summer Breeze 12-feet long, about 340 lbs payload although have heard of more, see, thread I started recently, http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=86853

lots of cool tips, identical building process to one sheet skiff

http://www.simplicityboats.com/summerbreezetemp.html

the builders page.

Good luck,

[wwaterman]

Ooh, Switters, I like it. Thanks. Did you use the plans on that website (simplicityboats.com)? Did you build directly from that site?

Thanks --

[wwaterman]

I like this design a lot, Switters. Thank you. I think I'm going to build a paper model this weekend.

I know I've seen this in a thread a year-or-so ago, but is ACX a reasonable alternative to AC Exterior? I couldn't find anything after searching the forum.

I'm pretty sure this is a "DON'T USE THAT CRAP" answer. Of course, I don't want this boat to rot out from under the family that receives it.

I may be looking at a trip down to Phoenix for the wood...

[LarryR]

Thanks Canoes,
Thanks Darren.

That will make it easier to find.

Larry

[Christine DeMerchant]

How about the CLC Peace Canoe?
http://www.clcboats.com/shop/boats/canoes/CLC-PEACECANOE.html
Comes as a kit or as plans or as just wood parts. Looks easy to build and holds a few people.
Christine

[titanicslim]

About eight years ago I had the chance to build a 7 ft. Billy Atkin "Rinky-Dink" with some Girl Scouts. It was one of the finest experiences of my life!

They were about 10-12 yrs old and, when we began, the general level of technical knowledge was, "Do I hold the hammer thingy by the big thingy or the little thingy?" The girls learned something and I learned a lot.

Don't let anything deter you from doing this gig!

Dave

[wwaterman]

Hey folks,

I have to write a good budget for this project so I can begin locating the funds. I would be most appreciative if some of you would assist me in this because I can't be inaccurate with this.

Basic itemized is where I'm at right now:

-Wood
-Pl Premium
-Paint
-Bronze fasteners
-Fiberglass tape
-Still deciding on size of epoxy/hardener

As you can see I'm at the painful beginning here. I'm narrowing down the wood right now. As someone who lives in the landlocked state of Arizona, does anyone know where I can get marine ply? Is ordering and shipping a decent alternative, or will I be paying through the teeth for shipping?

Also, I'm planning on using basic brad nails to build it and then seal it. I'm thinking that I'm also going to, in addition to the PL Premium to seal it, I'm also going to fiberglass tape the seams. Is this a problem? Do people just nail it and smear PL Premium in there? No fillets?

Those are quite a few questions, but I'd be very appreciative for some thoughts. Thanks --

-Will