Wax over varnish.....

[J. Dillon]

any one here try it ?:confused:

Despite 10 coats of Captains varnish , my bright work showed sings of water penetration.:( It's always on horizontal surfaces like thwarts, never on vertical surfaces. Rain water, dew collects and find there way past the varnish. Next season I'm going to try a wax coating, maybe a car wax of some kind and see what happens. It can be easily reapplied during the season.

J

[Paul G.]

try stripping it back and epoxying the bare timber, then varnish.

[capt jake]

I use a product I bought for the motor home, years ago. It is super easy to put on and buff out. It removes those spots and blemishes well also. When I am up and more mobile, I should go out to the shop and see what it is. Spray bottle also.

Oops, penetration, I wouldn't think that wax would do the trick.

[Thorne]

Is the water showing within the varnish layers, or completely penetrating the varnish and getting into the wood? Anything in/on the wood, like BLO or boat soup? Wood cleaned with MEK or ? before varnish applied?

If the issue is water getting into the wood, I've had good luck with Smith & Co. CPES as a primer/sealer on fir, oak and spruce oars, spars, thwarts and gunwales. Use at least two coats, hot-coating the final layer with the first coat of slightly thinned varnish as per directions.

As for wax over varnish, you'd have to find something that wouldn't yellow or UV degrade -- so your idea of a car wax is good. Don't know much about the chemistry of modern car waxes, but it is certainly very different stuff from paste wax.

[kc8pql]

Be wary of car waxes and polish. Many contain silicone, which will cause fisheyes and adhesion problems when it comes time to re-varnish, particularly if it soaks onto the wood.

[David G]

Even just the wax - assuming you track one down that absolutely has no silicone - can cause problems when it comes time to recoat with varnish. I've had no problem over the years waxing a shellacked, lacquered, or varnished surface indoors - where the varnish won't have to be redone every year or three. I'd never do it on a boat.


"A cynic is a man who, when he smells flowers, looks around for the coffin" -- H.L. Mencken

[pcford]

Runabouts are commonly waxed. Use a high grade carnuba wax.

[boylesboats]

JD,
try using Johnson Paste Wax... You may work hard at it, but it'll be the best solution.... beware of treading around in socked feet on waxed surface...
May have to reply wax often, about once a week...
I like using that stuff... sticky wooden drawers slide better after applying it on wooden guides... On the wooden floors in socked feet.. my, oh my... Slip slidin' across the room...

[J. Dillon]

Thorne, The water penetration went through all layers of the varnish right to the wood staining it of course. Not all over but along a small glue line, about an inch. Some of my thwarts join each other. When making them I allowed over 1/4" to allow for expansion. Some how the wood (W.Oak) asorbs water, swells and by the time I'm ready to haul the boat at the end of the season this 1/4" gap is gone sometimes making the thwart sticking against the ajoining one difficult to remove. So I conclude that water gets past the varnish swelling the wood.

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/5503/carrianneatfarmriverdocjg8.jpg
View of Carrianne the thwart in question is the one across the beam at the aft end of the CB trunk.

larry , Thanks for the tip about that wax. I think I'll make a trial run with just a portion of wax applied to just one thwart and see what happens.

JD

[johnw]

I no longer varnish horizontal surfaces. If you must, epoxy first and use at least 10 coats. That's why I don't varnish such surfaces.

[J. Dillon]

Thats good advise Johnw but I think I'll still look for another way to have my cake and eat it too. ;) I like varnish.:D

JD

[SNagy]

Jack: You might try this stuff called Nyalic. It goes on top of the varnish and supposedly is clear and undetectable, yet will protect the surface for 2 or 3 years. It is a high-tech product that is used on the space shuttle or something. I have never used it, but I have heard great things. Anyone have experience with the stuff?

www.nyalic.com (http://www.nyalic.com)

[J. Dillon]

Thanks SNagy, Im going to look into it. :D

JD

[MiddleAgesMan]

It's possible the finish is being breached at sharp corners. Before you spend a lot of time and effort on repair look closely at the structure for any edges that aren't eased. Paint and varnish won't wrap around a sharp corner.

[Thorne]

Interesting problem! First, I **think** that WO has a lot of movement associated with moisture cycles, so you might be seeing a combination of that effect combined with the above mention of sharp edges being breached through the varnish.

Personally I'd consider making sure all corners are well-radiused/rounded, then coat with CPES to both provide a good bond to the wood and provide a limited amount of moisture protection (not as good as a full epoxy barrier).

Hot-coat the final layer of CPES (WO won't really take more than two coats anyway) with the first layer of varnish -- then see what happens.

I went from oiled wood to varnish on most of the horizontal surfaces in my dory skiff and have never regretted it. I lightly sand and revarnish every year or so, but the floorboards, thwarts, partners, etc seem to handle it pretty well -- and some are WO. The dory skiff never lives in the water more than a week, however...

[Lew Barrett]

I think Thorne hits it. Wood movement. That will breech the film seal every time.
Despite our fondest wishes, varnish is not impenetrable, nor is it really "water proof." At least that's my experience. Sooner or later, the water finds a way through at any seams or joins. I wish varnish would lay down a water-proof barrier, for that's all I'd then put on my decks and the world below would always be dry and warm,

I believe that waxing will provide an additional layer of protection (using the caveats above...no silly cones) but it can't stop wood movement and cracking along the seams, or eventual wear and erosion.

Care of fancy finishes is the thing that will eventually make photography my primary hobby!!

[Canoeyawl]

I try to arrange for the brightwork be on only vertical or near vertical surfaces with an exception for the top of toerails and combings. (And these need annual topping off) Thwarts, seats, floorboards and etc are oiled and maintained every month in the summer with a quick recoat.
Horizontal surfaces have some inherent issues - UV exposure being the big one.

A couple of notes – Remembering that I learn the hard way…lol
*With fancy show car high gloss automotive finishes it is important not to let water bead up on it. In the bright sun these droplets of water act like a magnifying glass and will actually burn the surface leaving a permanent mark. Perhaps some of this is going on. Yet another reason to stay with vertical surfaces.
*Captains varnish is not very good – the more expensive version, Flagship, is far superior with a stated 7 times the UV resistance...
*Most waxes contain silicone and if you are ever going to refinish it will be difficult to remove and the new paint or varnish will not stick. It’s not worth the risk to do a bang-up varnish job to later watch it lift off at the corners where the wax and silicone are trapped.