Bolger's Blackbird-unused plans

[joek]

First post here.

revived an old thread in the building forum,may fit better here

I have a set of blackbird plans from CSD along with the portland skiff bought long ago and never built. thinking of listing my collection of unused plans on ebay, but have no idea on value? Joe

[Tom Robb]

I'd guess they're worth whatever someone will pay - up to the price of a new set of course. Half the new price might be a reasonable start depending on condition.
Who/what is CSD?

[Steve Paskey]

Who/what is CSD?

Common Sense Designs is a company that sells boat plans, including some of Bolger's designs.

CSD was founded by Elroe LaRowe, who commissioned MICRO and several other Bolger designs. The company changed hands several times after LaRowe died.

There's a long standing controversy concerning ownership of the Bolger plans sold by CSD. As I understand it, Bolger and his partner believe that they are entitled to royalties. However, the current owner claims to own all rights to the Bolger designs and refuses to pay.

[paladin]

Most folks I know refuse to purchase Bolger plans from CSD just on general principles.

[joek]

these were purchased long before the current owner of CSD. what is your point?

[Steve Paskey]

these were purchased long before the current owner of CSD. what is your point?

I don't think Chuck's comment was directed to you in any way, joek. But some people reading this thread aren't familiar with CSD or the controversy, and they should at least be aware of it if they're thinking about buying plans from CSD.

Incidentally, Common Sense Designs now goes under the name "Common Sense Boats."

There is one point worth noting about your plans. Anyone who buys them on eBay should not expect Bolger to answer questions or provide other support, and that fact should be included in the listing. And CSB no longer sells Blackbird plans, so there's likely no support on that end, either.
.

[paladin]

Joek....the comment was not a derogatory remark or dig at you personally...as Steve has noted. When designs are drawn the ownership stays with the architect, and the plans are for building one boat only......sometimes there are prior arrangements about multiple builds, And sometimes folks get a set of plans and reproduce them and sell them without paying royalties to the architect, and it doesn't take long for the word to get out....some other such things was Colorado Eastern selling anyones plans that they can get a copy of, Ken Hankinson sold Bruce Binghams plans without Bruce's approval, and so on.

[joek]

No offense taken.

[ben2go]

I can see how all of that would have been confusing.Thanks for the CSD lesson.I knew the site by it's full name and was unaware of the issue with Bolgers plan sets.I now feel that I am better informed.No pun intended.

[Tom Robb]

Oh. So that who CSD is. I'd no idea there was this dispute.
One other ethical choice might be to pay Bolger's royalty when you build the boat even if you don't have to.
I built one of his litle bateaus some time ago from the plan in one of his several books. I take it that they're published knowing that people will do that, but it felt reasonable and worthwhile to send him a check for 10% of the build cost (as was suggested.) If that encourages him/them to publish more books it was particularly worth it and he's worth it anyway.

[Captain Blight]

Well, the plans were already paid for once, which I guess would include the license to build one (1) boat. If the boat was never built earlier, is there a statute of limitiations on when it can be built? I wouldn't think so. I'd think the license would change hands with the changes in owner until that vessel was actually constructed.

[rbgarr]

But was Bolger paid for them? It doesn't sound like he sold the rights to whoever at CSD republished them.

[MiddleAgesMan]

I had some professional help starting my Gazelle bare hull. The guy had jigs and sticks for everything and I don't recall him ever bringing out or looking at the plans. He just sent Tom Colvin $300 each time he reproduced the design.

[paladin]

I think you will find, by and large, that most folks are inherently honest, and that eventually those that abuse the situation get a bad reputation over a few dollars.

[andrewe]

A young designer put up a 24ft gaff cutter in The Boatman around 89? I knew a guy in portugal who xerox the lines and built it. No credit to the designer. Problem was, he used construction lumber for the strip plank build. It was rotting before the launch. Sold it to some dreamers, one of who drowned. The designer probably never heard that his dream had been launched.Lot of this around.
A

[Tom Robb]

Doing the right thing seems to be a minority position these days given the financial news.
Why not write to Bolger and ask him - then you'd know the status of the plans? Sleeping well at night is a good thing.