Folkboat interior

[BarnacleGrim]

I am currently in the process of designing a new interior for my Folkboat. Right now it has the basic two berths, small galley and no head, which is okay for camping. However I was thinking of making it a nice little summertime live-aboard with all the creature comforts one could only dream about back in the 1940s.

As for the finish, I was thinking about a rather traditional but modest white painted wood with plenty of mahogany brightwork and indigo upholstery. Another idea is a more bold design, with lots of varnished teak and white lambskin upholstery (I got that idea at Ikea the other day, hope it doesn't sound tacky :rolleyes:). I'm not sure what would work best, any input would be appreciated.

http://www.schjetne.info/uploaded_images/quick-draft-735126.png

[epoxyboy]

Sacrilege! I thought interior design in a Folkboat was supposed to be a bucket ;-)

[RFNK]

I think your layout looks really good. Our boat is set up for camping and coastal cruising too and I think your design would work well. We have the stove where yours is and a small cupboard above that for crockery. Where you've put the head, we have a sink and drawers. We have a bridge deck and self-draining cockpit and diesel engine. Under the bridge deck there's a bit of storage area although I try to keep that clear for access to the engine, oild filter, water strainer, batteries etc. and access to the cockpit drain cocks. I like your idea of a toilet draining to a waste collection tank in the lazarette. We only have a portable toilet with its own storage tank. It's stored in the forward area. We only take this when we go away for more than a day - the rest of the time we use a bucket but that's only suitable for dirty Antipodeans like us and Epoxy Boy - not suitable for you spotless Scandinavians! You've achieved a capacity to accommodate a stove and sink combination, and head, by moving the berths forward. This is good but the cost is that you have little storage capacity for sails, anchors, food cooler etc. There isn't much room in the forward area you have left and it's pretty tight up there! If you can really limit what you carry though, this shouldn't be a problem. The other thing you might consider is a table area. We have a `double-sided' table that swings over the stove or over the berth, and we have a removable cover over the sink on the other side, so it also serves as another table. This gives us quite a lot of handy workspace for meals, especially when we have breakfast in bed! I have the water tank in one of the bilges and a hand-operated pump-type faucet behind the sink. This works well except the tank capacity is quite small so we carry extra water in a tank kept in the forward section. You can keep heavy things like that in the aft area because you don't have a heavy engine to worry about. I'm assuming you have a small outboard? That's actually another thing to consider - where will you put the outboard when sailing in rough water?

As far as interior finish goes, our hull is painted creamy white. The cabin-sides and other teak bits are painted with a satin varnish. I like a light interior. I did read a suggestion in another post, though, where a guy, PAR, I think, recommended leaving the hull and frames with a clear finish so that the condition of the timber can be monitored. This sounds like good advice to me. If you did your cushions, cabin top etc. with light paint but kept the frames and hull clear, the boat would still be bright inside. You could always use a light timber as a ceiling to back the bunks and leave spaces so that you can see the timber hull. This would also keep the interior light.

I think you've come up with a really practical interior. I think you might have some storage difficulties but if you didn't, it wouldn't be a Folkboat. Oh, given that your berths are pushed even further forward than usual and, as it's a Nordic Folkboat, wear a helmet for the first 6 months! I'm not serious but, if you've had the boat for a long time, you'll know what I mean. If you haven't, well ... you will! :D Well done! Rick

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

Three fuels - Petrol, paraffin and alcohol?

The Atalanta had a head which usually required the user to open the hatch for sufficient head room.

Is this a holding tank setup?

[Popeye]

dink's i take it , no v berth (chain locker ?)

mast step and dodger is a real head banger

[BarnacleGrim]

1. I'm thinking of putting a Wallas 1300 heater on the bulkhead behind the head, so it makes sense to have the fuel for the heater to starboard.

2. That was the first idea I had, but the lack of headroom may be a problem. Getting past the mast is not a problem, as it is deck stepped. Seating while cooking will be provided by the companionway step.

3. It's very tempting. The purpose of a sink is first of all to always keep water handy, so maybe just a faucet will do, a bit like an office water cooler. Washing hands would still be necessary, though.

4. I'm going to put receptacles for a movable pedestal table in the cabin and in the cockpit sole, so that meals can be enjoyed in either place. There will also be a folding table over the galley, just like the original Folkboat. In open position it will provide a surface for cooking, and when closed it will provide space for charts, laptop with GPS software, etc.

5. The location of the water tank is a bit exaggerated for visibility, it will probably be under the deck hatch. Same goes with the waste tank, it will be under the seat. It will reduce chances of mistaking the water fill port with the waste pump-out port. There are other spaces that could accept water tanks, but they all require the complexity of connecting several small tanks together.

Oh, and there is nothing spotless about us Scandinavians! In fact, everyone I've talked to insists that the bucket is the way to go. Which is fine out at sea, but less than polite when you are emptying the contents in the bay, or worse, a canal. Another issue is privacy when I entertain guests, as well as smell in the cabin. The head will have a mushroom vent of its own. I'll probably order a Lavac Popular, they are about the same price (shipping included) as the cheap no-brand electrical head at the local car parts store. And I hear Lavacs are much more dependable and easy to maintain.

As for the finish, I'll probably try to strike middle ground. I'm hesitant to cover the ceiling, but that would allow electrical lights to be installed without showing the wires. A lot will be painted white, with satin teak brightwork. I still like the lambskin idea, but I can imagine sewing the stuff would be hard. I'll probably just get a few pelts in the cabin, and I can always hide them should I have a vegan on board.

Nina is actually one of few Nordics to have an inboard engine.

Edit: The only way to reduce the number of fuels is by switching to diesel, which is prohibitively expensive, whether it's a diesel engine, heater or stove. I originally wanted a Taylors paraffin stove, but I would still need a separate pressurized tank for it. Alcohol is more affordable, without the complexity of all safeguards needed to make LPG safe.

[StevenBauer]

Our very similar sized Ostkust has a small hanging locker where you have the head. Our head is forward, between the berths, aft of the mast. Privacy is with a curtain that slides on some mast track mounted on a deckbeam.

We have no sink, and a bulkhead mounted swinging stove.

Have you thought about the Wallas cooker? It works as cooking stove and heater (with the fan installed over the burner) . It vents to the outside so you wouldn't have the smell of the alcohol stove or the condensation and ventilation problems of an unvented stove. You would eliminate one fuel source, too.


Steven

[RFNK]

The original Folkboat interior had a hanging locker where you have your head located. I removed ours because there's just no need for a hanging locker with modern waterproof gear, in Australia anyway. The ceiling I referred to is interior `planking' covering the hull behind the berths, not the overhead ceiling. I don't think there's any need for overhead ceiling. Actually, I find no need for the interior planking `ceiling' either but others find that condensation builds up on the hull interior and ceiling behind the bunks prevents blankets etc. from getting wet. We haven't had that problem on our boat yet. We also use the companionway step as a seat for cooking and find this very comfortable. I have the batteries under it and the water inlet valve for the engine cooling. We have a 10hp diesel engine that is just excellent (Nanni). We were also advised not to put a sink in the boat but we're actually really glad we did. It's great for washing up and it serves as a table when not in use as we have a flush cover for it. The plumbing is simply one outlet through the hull and we use no harmful detergents etc. so it's environmentally okay - unlike our bucket arrangement, I have to admit. Doing without it though, would not be a problem. Having the drawers that are part of the unit, though, I would not like to do without. They're really handy.

Also glad to hear you Scandinavians are a dirty lot like us - we only see pictures of blonde Scandinavians in waterfalls advertising shampoo etc. in Australia!

The advice about not storing anything under the berths is good advice although I'd suggest for a different reason. The bilges in the Folkboat are really deep so if you're getting water up under the bunks it's either time to abandon ship or let the main off a bit. However, it's an important area for ventilation - it can get pretty musty in there, so we keep ours free of anything that will block the flow of air. We put food etc. in canvas bags in there when we're on a trip (we only do trips of 4-5 days).

There is room in the bilges for a small water tank or two. We had ours specially made from plastic. It's very handy although the capacity is small. make sure you leave a space for ventilation and water flow-through if you do that. As you have an inboard engine, you can afford to have a bit of weight in the bow. The Folkboat wasn't designed to have an inboard so adding a bit of weight up forward can actually prevent the boat from dragging its tail a bit, as long, of course, that it's secure.

Let me know if you want any pictures. I'll be back in Australia in January so it'll be no trouble then to snap a few pictures if you want them. Rick

[BarnacleGrim]

Let's see: The Wallas 85DU with pot holders, fan and side exhaust will cost me $1,792. The Wallas 1300 and Origo 3000 with potholders and side exhaust will cost me $1,396.

With Diesel I get less fumes in the cockpit, less complexity with only one device and one fuel, and of course, Diesel fuel only costs a fraction of paraffin or alcohol. The Diesel one is more powerful as well. In heater mode it draws 0.6 A, while the Wallas 1300 draws 0.4 A. I will absolutely consider it, thanks for the tip!

I have been going back and forth a lot on the forward head versus rear cabin head. It would be very nice to get more space to lounge in the cabin, especially with the headroom only found in the very rear of the cabin. I'm just afraid that I'd have to eliminate the galley to bring the berths far enough aft to provide enough clearance for the head (the boat is narrow with a spoon bow, so it gets extremely tight in the forepeak).

[Popeye]

I'm hesitant to cover the ceiling, but that would allow electrical lights to be installed without showing the wires.

exposed wiring goes unnoticed , if done very neatly in a nice braided ss armored cable

[davidagage]

Let's see: The Wallas 85DU with pot holders, fan and side exhaust will cost me $1,792. The Wallas 1300 and Origo 3000 with potholders and side exhaust will cost me $1,396.

This Origo?
http://www.defender.com/images/400400.jpg

$1300!:eek:

I like your layout though. I do understand about headroom and trying to find a place for the head. Can you run it up in the forepeak under the hatch?

[BarnacleGrim]

The Origo itself is only $325, the price I was referring to was the heater AND the stove, comparing it to the Wallas diesel stove with heater attachment.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

This Origo?
http://www.defender.com/images/400400.jpg

$1300!:eek:
...

We can beat that..
Optimus 155 (http://www.hytta.de/index_f.htm?kocher/790.htm) 189 Euro.
http://www.hytta.de/kocher/_774.jpg

[BarnacleGrim]

Here is the alternate layout with a head in the forepeak. It does have the advantage of more seating space with better headroom, but with a very small galley it will feel like you're cooking in bed, and using the head will be problematic in bad weather. The option to use a diesel stove is out for this design, as it would heat one berth a lot more than the other.
http://www.schjetne.info/uploaded_images/quick-draftB-732294.png

I guess there is a third option - to extend the berths under the cockpit seats and bringing the head and galley forward, but the boat isn't really beamy enough for that. And nobody wants to cook that close to the head.

[RFNK]

Hmm, this is testing the memory but I'd be worried that if you ran the berths under the cockpit seats you could reduce the strength of the `bulkhead' that separates the interior from the cockpit at, almost, the widest point of the boat. I'm assuming you have a self-draining cockpit if you're thinking of running the berths under the cockpit seats? I also don't like the head stuck up in the middle of the cabin - it's what you'll be looking at whenever you look into the interior! if you shield it, then you're blocking the view up into the bow, which would be a real shame in a Folkboat. If I were you, I'd go with your original design. Using the companionway step as a seat for cooking goes really well - it's a sort of `open plan' approach to sharing the cooking experience with the skipper. And you can forget about cooking in a Folkboat in rough weather anyway! If you can't work out a way to fit the head in near the galley, then I'd just forget it. Get a stowable portable with its own storage tank to use on trips or use the bucket. That's what we do and it works fine.

[BarnacleGrim]

It doesn't have a self-draining cockpit, and the risks of removing bulkheads is exactly my concern. I also see what you mean with the head in the middle of the cabin. If I decide to go with the second layout I will definitely put up a bulkhead. And I won't be able to use all that space in the forepeak for food, for obvious reasons.

A portable head is out of the question because of the low volume and steep deadrise of the boat - I'm essentially trying to fit a square box in a round hull. The Lavac has a much smaller footprint, and I can keep the tank elsewhere, instead of taking up space inside the cabin. The only other option is scheduled shore leaves and a bucket just in case.

I understand that I won't be able to cook in rough weather, but I would still like to be able to cook while under sail. Sailing non-stop from Gothenburg to the Kiel canal would save a lot of time should I want to cruise around the Netherlands and the English Channel. But it's not on the top of priorities. It will be for coastal cruising only, so I will have the option to either find a mooring, or go under power when cooking. I'm starting to like the idea of a Wallas diesel stove with heater attachment more and more. It does cost slightly more, and I won't be able to use it with gimbals, but the fuel is only 1/3 of kerosene or alcohol. The cabin stays dry, and my cookware won't get dirty from the soot. I can even use it to make toast!

http://beeldbank.prepublisher.com/pictures/INTERNET/TIC/7/TICZ5457.jpg

[RFNK]

The heater/stove idea sounds very good to me. We have the opposite problem in Australia. The interior of the Folkboat is small and quite hot in most months of the year. I'd only install a heater if we were living in Tasmania.

I think your original layout is the right way to go, including the head arrangement. You'll always have storage issues in the Folkboat but I find keeping the forepeak for storage works really well. Use canvas bags for storing food under the bunks. There's no problem with that in a Folkboat, even if you take some water, as the bilges are so deep.

We have another boat we're going to restore soon which we'll possibly take to Tasmania. The information that's come up in yopur thread re stoves/heaters will be really useful for that if that's the way we go with this next project. I'm also going to check out the Lavac head idea. Rick

[StevenBauer]

As I said before the head in our boat is just aft of the mast, between the foot of the bunks. That leaves the forepeak open and you don't have to crawl around the mast to get to the head.

Forepeak:

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/bauerdad/Ostkust/IMG_0394.jpg

Mahogany cover:

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/bauerdad/Ostkust/IMG_0393.jpg


Hiding:

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/bauerdad/Ostkust/IMG_0392.jpg

Here's the privacy curtain:

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/bauerdad/Ostkust/IMG_1164.jpg

And here's the Sea Swing stove, originally for sterno, modified to fit a little backpacking stove:

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/bauerdad/Ostkust/IMG_1118.jpg

[BarnacleGrim]

I've been thinking some more about this, so I'm bringing the thread back up again. My pictures aren't showing up any more, I'll have to sort that out with my ISP.

First off, I'm going for the Origo 3000 stove. It's probably one of the most reliable stoves out there. The Wallas 1300 heater is compact and not too expensive. The stove will be mounted to port and the sink will be to starboard. I'm still considering a head in the forepeak in order to get some convenience and autonomy from expensive marinas. I'll probably go with a cheaper model, put up a curtain and call it a urinal, though, for the sake of anyone remaining in the cabin.

Steven, do you use a holding tank? I've heard that they should always be stainless steel, but since mine will be for light use only, perhaps polypropylene will do? I'm also thinking about getting a separate tank or bladder for flushing, if it's slightly smaller than the holding tank I won't have to worry about either overflowing, through-hulls or marine algae stinking up the bowl. I'll just fill it whenever I empty the holding tank.

[Jay Greer]

Force 10 makes a very small two burner range and oven stove. We will be installing one in our H28 "Bright Star". Although the stove is available with a variety of fuel options, we are planning to run it on compressed natural gas as there is much less chance of explosion with CNG than with Propane.
http://www.force10.com/
Jay

[BarnacleGrim]

http://www.biltema.se/Archive/Product_images/25/Huge/25-9920_h.jpg


Does anyone know what head this is, and if it's any good? They sell it at a no-brand store here.

[Hughman]

for a boat this small, I'd use a porta-potty. This solves no end of plumbing problems, including regulations. There's a lot to be said for a bucket with catsand and liners, too.

[Sailor]

See LFH's Sensible cruising designs for more on the famous cedar bucket.

[BarnacleGrim]

http://jalopnik.com/assets/resources/2008/04/peepeebottle-thumb.jpg

I might get a pair of these instead, to put behind the curtain instead of a full-blown head. It's less cumbersome for "light use" than a cedar bucket, and I love the self-deprecation involved in stepping out of the cabin and emptying one of these in a crowded midsummer anchorage at night :D

However I will be carrying spirits on board, so I'm unsure if the mere 600 ml is adequate. :p

Anyway, this means I will have room for a cosy and more reliable solid-fuel heater up front, instead of that kerosene hair dryer:

http://www.go2marine.com/go2_structure/2/0/0/1/20010F-p.jpg
Dickinson Newport Solid Fuel

Solid-fuel heaters are fairly unheard of in Sweden, so I have to ask you guys how wise my idea sounds. I want to install it towards the bow of the boat, on one side of the hatch, with a vent on the other.

I should probably avoid vents that rely on the wind to suck air out of the cabin, what type of vents are most suitable? Perhaps a dorade vent on the foredeck, along with the companionway hatch louvres will provide adequate ventilation without much risk of downdrafts?

[paladin]

Under the deck near the side edge of the cabin I built a dorade box that was flush with the outside of the cabin top and not visible inside the boat as it was inside a locker....I ran the heater exhaust into it....and on the outside placed a Nicro solar vent with stainless blades and shell set on exhaust mode....always pulling the exhaust up and out of the boat thru the dorade box....in good weather and foul....