20' yawl heritage

[Roy Hebert]

I am restoring a 20' LOA 7' Beam centerboard yawl built in the 1940's. I purchased the boat thinking it was version of the Sea Bird. But when I took-off the lines it became apparent that the hull does not resemble Day's design at all. I am attaching the body plan, profile and photo of the little yawl in hopes of someone recognizing her. The boat was found in upper Michigan and was probably built somewhere on the Great Lakes. Thanks for your help.

http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr356/roihebert/deckpainted.jpg
http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr356/roihebert/YawlProfile.jpg
http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr356/roihebert/YawlBodyPlan.jpg

[Brian Palmer]

Don't know the design, but it is a nice looking boat.

Welcome aboard.

Brian

[StevenBauer]

What a nice little boat:

http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr356/roihebert/deckpainted.jpg


http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr356/roihebert/YawlProfile.jpg


http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr356/roihebert/YawlBodyPlan.jpg

No help on the ID but someone might be along to help.
And, welcome. :)

Steven

[johngsandusky]

Reminds me of Sam Rabl, but I'm not looking at the book right now.

[Roy Hebert]

Milo, I don't know if we have met; I have been to Michigan only once to pickup the old yawl. I met alot of great sailors at the Chicago Wooden Boat Show on Navy Pier in 1986, where I exhibited the Culler Wherry I built in my Reverence for Wood Boat Shop. Perhaps we met there. Thanks for your comments.

[Steve Paskey]

She looks quite a bit like Nelson Zimmer's 21-foot gaff sloop, designed in 1946.

See: http://www.woodenboatstore.com/211-Gaff-Sloop/productinfo/400%2D044/

Plans from WB, study plans are in "Fifty Wooden Boats." I have the book open now.

In the photo, the house and coaming on your boat are higher, but that could be an alteration by the builder.

Looking at your lines drawings, there are differences. Compared to what you've drawn, the Zimmer boat: (1) has a sheer that rises more going forward; (2) has skeg that slopes down more going aft; (3) has the board farther back; (4) has a "taller" transom (shape is similar, proportions are different); and (5) has a rounded rather than rectangular rudder.

The first two differences could be the result of where the waterline is drawn on your boat -- tip the bow up, and they're mostly gone. And the rudder could easily be a builder alteration.

Beyond that, the size and shape are very similar. Zimmer's boat is 21'1" long with a 7'2" beam. If you don't have a copy of Fifty Wooden Boats, I'd get one and take a closer look.

What's the interior like? In the Zimmer sloop, simplicity is the theme. There are two settee berths, a single built-in storage locker, and a large flat platform forward for gear storage. As for construction details: there are sawn frames at each station. Intermediate frames reinforce the bottom planking. The topside seams are backed with full-length fore and aft battens. And there are a full set of lodging and hanging knees.

[Roy Hebert]

Steve, thanks for the research. I drew the lines from the painted water line as a reference. The actual profile may be quite different because of this. The interior has never been finished as a cruising boat, simplicity is an understatement. I will finish the cabin for minimal cruising, since there is not much room below. How do you think she will perform in protected inland lake waters?

[Roy Hebert]

Steve, I downloaded Zimmer's 21' Gaff Sloop and the lines are similar. You noticed that the CB was located more forward in my boat, so I remeasured its location. My CB is placed well forward as drawn. The CE for the yawl rig is most likely well aft of the CLR which will cause considerable weatherhelm, don't you think? Also the freeboard in my boat shows great flare and the chine nuckle is quit slack; this old yawl will probably be very tender. With the entry a fine as it is, she will also be wet to windward. What do you think?

[Steve Paskey]

My sailing experience is limited and consists mostly of much smaller boats, so I'm the wrong guy to ask about that.

But I forgot that your boat is a yawl, not a sloop. Despite the similarities with the Zimmer sloop, it must be a different design ... unless the builder really took some liberties. It's been known to happen -- one builder, for instance, turned John Atkins' GREAT BEAR SLOOP into a yawl. (There are some lovely photos on the Atkins site.) It's also possible that Zimmer redrew it as a yawl at someone's request and moved the board.

[johnw]

Boy, that boat has a lot of rocker and a lot of deadrise. Keep in mind that the skeg provides part of the lateral plane. Does the boat have a bowsprit? That might help it balance.

[Roy Hebert]

Yes, it does have a bowsprit. The jib is club-footed, mizzen marconi and main is gaff. She may balance with this rigging, we will find out. I find it interesting studying the lines and predicting performance. And you are right, the rocker and deadrise are pronounced, making a pretty hull to look at but possibly tender and yet agile.

[Roy Hebert]

Thought I would add a photo of the rigging as set in Sandusky 1986. Not such a good picture, but it may suggest the balance.

http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr356/roihebert/20ftgaffrigged3.jpg

[Steve Paskey]

Nice looking set of sails. Thanks!

I have some new ideas ... it's a long shot, but worth looking into.

The more I think about it, the fine shape with the extreme deadrise and rocker reminds me of Thomas Clapham's non-pareil sharpies, the best known version being a 38 footer called Minocqua. (Reuel Parker has redrawn it for modern construction.) And Larry Huntington, one of Clapham's contemporaries, worked on the Sea Bird Yawl. Looking through Mystic's on-line index to the Rudder, I see that there's a 21-foot yawl by Huntington in the June 1906 issue ... But I could be totally off base.

[johnw]

Yeah, with that rig, she might balance, provided the centerboard isn't too efficient.

[Steve Paskey]

Okay, one more thought and then I'm done. The rest is up to you, Roy.

I'm looking at a lines drawing of the centerboard version of John Hanna's Gulfweed and there are some strong similarities with the lines you drew. And looking at the sail plan, the relative size and proportions of the sails look very similar to the photo of your boat when rigged. Gulfweed is 27 feet long. I don't know where to find Hanna's plans, but it's worth checking to see if he did a yawl the size of your boat.

ADDED: Ah ... Hanna did a 20-foot sloop called Poco Dinero. Perhaps your boat is a yawl-rigged version?

[StevenBauer]

Neat photo:

http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr356/roihebert/20ftgaffrigged3.jpg

[Roy Hebert]

Thanks, Steve for all your help. I ordered both Hanna and Huntington's study plans as you suggested. My research has been greatly expanded by your input. I believe the boat was built by an amature from drawn plans. It would be nice to locate the actual plans for the historical record. I will keep looking.

[Steve Paskey]

You're welcome -- keep us posted! I'm betting that it's a Hanna design. The booklet for Gulfweed happened to be on top of a pile of stuff, and when I opened it and looked at the lines, my immediate thought was: that's it -- it's just smaller. I didn't focus on the sail plan until an hour later, and again I had the same reaction.