Tanbarking sails

[Thad Van Gilder]

I am having this canvas sail made for me, and I was wondering if any of you have ever tanbarked a sail? What works, what doesn't? What kind of containor should I do it in?

-Thad

[Venchka]

Search the Forum. I know it's been discussed before.

[Nicholas Carey]

Barking a sail involves boiling it in a mixture of (if memory serves) cutch/catechu (http://mail.roeper.de/Productf.nsf/0/a41633dd2ffa2e6fc1256d660033a028?OpenDocument), an extract from Acacia Catechu, a tree from East India, containing catechin and catechutannic acid, vegetable tannins, along with fermented urine (for the urea, which I believe acted as a mordant to fix the cutch) and, um, other stuff (e.g., fermented dung).

[ 03-10-2004, 04:02 PM: Message edited by: Nicholas Carey ]

[reddog]

I believe the old timers up this way boiled their sails in a cauldron of water and Eastern hemlock bark.Helps to preserve them and also gives that dark red colour.
Earl
I suppose they could've pissed in it too. ;)
"Catskill tanneries supplied most of the saddles used in the Civil War. Hides were shipped from South America for processing into leather. High in tannins, bark was stripped from hemlock trees and used to 'tan' hides. The furniture making industry followed, using the trees left behind. Cleared land was often sold for 50 cents an acre to mountain farmers. Today, the cleared valleys and hillsides have returned to forest"
Taken from this site http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/dlf/publands/cats/

[ 03-10-2004, 08:10 PM: Message edited by: reddog ]

[Nicholas Carey]

More on barking sails…

I just checked Emiliano Marino's The Sailmaker's Apprentice, in which the author suggests these two texts for more information about barking sails:

Graumont, Raoul and Wenstrom, Elmer. Fisherman's Knots and Nets (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0870330241/102-9379452-1062523?v=glance). Cornell Maritime Press. June 1948.

Worth, Claude. Yacht Cruising. 272pp. J.D. Potter, London. 1910.

The first is available in paper through Amazon as noted above.

I searched http://www.abebooks.com/ and it only came up with one 1st edition in fine condition from the library of Francis, Earl of Kilmorey—at US$ 131.60 :eek:

http://www.alibris.com/ and Amazon both didn't find it.

There's always the library and inter-library loan.

[Nicholas Carey]

Originally posted by reddog:
I believe the old timers up this way boiled their sails in a cauldron of water and Eastern hemlock bark.Helps to preserve them and also gives that dark red colour.My understanding is that cutch superceded other sources of tannins for barking sails because it has such high levels of tannins that sails tanned with it lasted for 20–30 years.

BTW, the tree from which cutch is obtained, A. catechu, is the same tree from which betel nuts (very popular in that neck of the world for chewing) come.

[BillyBudd]

Stripped some fresh bark off a recently cut hemlock tree in Massachusetts wilderness, broke up the bark into small pieces, put them in a pot of water, boiled that for hours until the color looked good. Then took some cotton sails for a model boat (2 @ 3'x4' +/-)and put them in the warm water (bark removed)and let them soak for 3 or 4 days. Pinkish brown, not deep tanbark reddish brown. Darn. But permanent I think. There would be some exploration of quantities of bark, water, sail area as well as wondering if sail should be boiled or heated up to drive color in? Couldn't find any useful info on this, so thought it was a do it as you go along adventure.

[Nicholas Carey]

Originally posted by BillyBudd:
Stripped some fresh bark off a recently cut hemlock tree in Massachusetts wilderness, broke up the bark into small pieces, put them in a pot of water, boiled that for hours until the color looked good. Then took some cotton sails for a model boat (2 @ 3'x4' +/-)and put them in the warm water (bark removed)and let them soak for 3 or 4 days. Pinkish brown, not deep tanbark reddish brown. Darn. But permanent I think. There would be some exploration of quantities of bark, water, sail area as well as wondering if sail should be boiled or heated up to drive color in? Couldn't find any useful info on this, so thought it was a do it as you go along adventure.That's what the urine and dung are for. Barking a sail is more than just dying it brownish-red: you're actually tanning the canvas like leather, hence the tannin-loaded cutch, plus urea, etc.

A properly barked cotton sail should be good for a couple of decades without much in the way of coddling. That's why they used to do it that way.

[Stephen]

I have had good results in tanning using tea. I once dyed a small cotton jib brown - in a large pot on the stove full of tea bags. Looked good.

I wonder - can you make a white Dacron sail brown or dark red? Possible?

[Todd Bradshaw]

No, the most you can get is dirty white, even with oil-based stain. Polyester (Dacron) fiber does not take dye very well without putting up a fight, which makes one wonder how they got all those horribly colored, polyester leisure suits and golf pants during the '70's and '80's. The melamine or epoxy coatings used on sailcloth make getting dyes to hold and be colorfast even more of a problem, as anyone who ever rolled-up a wet, multicolored Hobie Cat sail and left it for a few days can verify. Far-Out Dude! It looks Tie-dyed!

[paladin]

My old boat had tanbark sails from Rolly Tasker in Honk Kong (circa 1968 when he was above Anthony W. K. Wong's yard) and the boat is still sailing with the original sails....albeit refinished and restitched a few times over. The old man's son now runs the loft on Phuket Thailand...and they are Most reasonable on sails from really big critters to dinks....it might be worthwhile to contact them........I don't remember the e-mail address but I think you can google them up with "Rolly Tasker'.....

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

I think there are two processes which we tend to confuse.

One is "barking" a sail i.e. tanning it with bark and a fixative (eg - urine)

The other is "dressing" a sail i.e. dressing it with oil and ochre.

The sail looks the same colour, but a dressed sail become waterproof; it is also heavier and the stuff comes off on you when you handle it. (I've got dressed sails...)

Claud Worth gives various recipes for both treatments ( n.b. to self, must treat my copy with greater respect!)

You can get various sail dressings ("Kanvo") was one which give the right colour.

I've never barked a sail but I have dressed them.