OARS, SPOKESHAVES

[davebrown]

Salty Dogs: I want to make my third set of oars with cutting tools instead of the belt sander (a la Payson).

Do I need a flat, radius, concave, or convex spokeshave?

My local specialty woodworking store has three: flat, "radius" and "curve".

Thnx in advance.

[Garrett Lowell]

I'm not a salty dog, but I'm making a double paddle right now.

Flat and curved, for sure. I'm using a Kunz number 53 with an adjustable mouth for flat, and a Stanley number 151r is my curved piece. I don't recommend the Kunz. The adjustable mouth works great, but it gets clogged with shavings and this gets quite annoying. The 151r is great.

[dmede]

Not sure which of the spokeshaves you would need (probably flat and round) but I imagine you migth also need a draw knife to get the shape started.

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=44502&cat=1,130,43332

[gary porter]

Dave, you can do most all of it with a straight spoke shave but it would be nicer to have at least a round one for a few spots. Also, a lot of the work goes easily with a block plane or small bench plane.
My wife uses a #1 and I use a #3 plus a scewed block plane. I've never used a concave shave but can see where it would be nice at times. Its really a matter of what you have on hand or are willing to buy. If you already have a hand plane, buy a straight spoke shave and if you want get the round one too. Better yet get them all if you can then you'll have something for whatever you run into.
Another nice tool for shaping is a #50 pattern rasp.
Making oars ,,,,just plane fun.... :D
Gary

[Dave Fleming]

Have you all forgotten Mr.S's fine postings on oar making using hand tools?

Original poster enter Bob Smalser in the Search feature and specify the B&R Forum initially.
Mr.S has done a great job of photo illustrating his hand work.

[Bob Smalser]

Search feature ain't working, Dave.

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/4518261/57153465.jpg
http://woodenboat-ubb.com/ubb/ultimatebb.ph p?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=009692 (http://woodenboat-ubb.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=009692)

Never found a use for a concave spoke shave. I make oars with a bandsaw, power jointer, drawknife, rasps, a #151 and a #4. Sometimes a #5 for long looms. I average a pair a day for non-spoons, not including any layup. Finish where needed with a card scraper and you can achieve a finish that doesn't require sanding.

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/7081299/91841741.jpg

I get the most uniform handles by using the round rasp to cut the shoulder to depth, first....the Nicholson 50 is the third rasp used....the finer rasp to its left or an old machinist file does the finishing:

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/7081299/93859833.jpg

[ 04-21-2005, 08:00 PM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

[Brian Palmer]

I used a concave spoke shave to create a hollow along the center of the oar blade to leave a ridge running down the middle and the blade is thinner and lighter. Other tools, like scrapers or a hollowing plane, will also work well.

If you don't want any hollows, then a straight spoke shave is the only one you'll need.

-- Brian

[Bruce Hooke]

It should maybe be noted that there are at least three ways in which a spokeshave can be round. This picture shows the first two. On the Woodcraft website (http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=562) these are labelled as (A)-"half-round" and (B)-"radius" spokeshaves.

http://www.woodcraft.com/images/family/web562big.jpg

and thr picture below shows the other way in which a spokeshave can be round. It is a little hard to see but the bottom of the spokeshave is rounded in the fore-and-aft direction. On the Woodcraft website (http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=5130) this is labelled as a "Round Face Spokeshave."

http://www.woodcraft.com/images/family/web5130big.jpg

Now that we've got our terms clear, here is my take:

As Brian noted, if you want to have a ridge down the center of the oar then you need something that will allow you to hollow out the area on each side of the ridge. A radius spokeshave is certainly one option for that. A round bottom plane might be a better option. A scraper would be a bit slow IMOOP.

For shaping the loom, in theory you would think that a "half-round" spokeshave would be called for but I have never found one necessary. I just use whatever plane works well along with a regular straight spokeshave where necessary and finally some light hand sanding to finish it off.

Shaping the area where the edge of the blade blends into the loom can be a little tricky because it is a hollow. Here a round face spokeshave can be helpful, but a rasp will also get the job done nicely.

So, all in all, the only spokeshave I would definitely want to have on hand for oar making is a straight one, unless I planned to have a ridge down the center of the blade with hollows on either side in which case I would want some sort of tool to shape these hollows.

[Bob Smalser]

I know Bruce ain't recommending them, but be careful buying Kuntz brand tools, fellas....they are pretty rough. Might be less work to get an older Stanley #51 or #151 off of Ebay in the 15-dollar range and tune it up:

http://woodenboat-ubb.com/cgi-bi n/UBB/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=008974&p= (http://woodenboat-ubb.com/cgi-bin/UBB/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=008974&p=)

And the best convex spoke shaves ever made were Snell Atherton's made for cobblers, not woodworkers.

But they are terrific in wood in Size 5 or 6, and I use mine often for backing out and hollowing...they go for 20-30 bucks:

http://cgi.ebay.co m/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4123&item=6171821156&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4123&item=6171821156&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW)

http://cgi.ebay.c om/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13874&item=6171490173&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13874&item=6171490173&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW)

http://i20.ebayimg.com/02/i/03/e1/77/a3_1_b.JPG

[ 04-22-2005, 12:32 AM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

[essaunders]

Say one had already purchased some of those 'rough' tools. Is there a way to rehab them into something that is useful?

I've tried to flatten the bottom (sole?) of the straight/flat spokeshave on a stone and have gotten rid of most of the swirlies.... Still, the tool chatters and doesn't cut well at all.

[Bob Smalser]

My post above contains a spoke shave tuneup article.

1) Clean/flatten sole and blade bearing surfaces with files.

2) Sharpen blade.

3) Tighten cap screw down real hard after adjusting blade.

4) Remember a spokeshave is merely a short-soled plane and has to be used like one only more so. Pressure is applied to the front of the sole when beginning a cut and transferred to the rear of the sole by the end of the cut.

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3302197/41734999.jpg

[ 04-22-2005, 11:17 AM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

[Alan D. Hyde]

I've never made a pair of oars for myself, so this is just a general comment, FWIW:

Using a good drawknife is one of the most pleasant woodworking tasks I've ever done, more satisfying even than planing or chiseling. Use a drawknife whenever you have a good excuse to do so, and I suspect that you may see what I mean.

Of course, it all depends on the wood you're working. Cherry is agreeable, but good clear close-grained walnut is hard to beat. Just pay attention to the grain, don't hurry, and you'll be OK.

Alan

http://www.toolpost.co.uk/pages/Woodworking_Tools/Woodworking_-_Chisels/Crown_DK_drawknife.jpg

Here's a link to an excellent drawknife discussion by Bob Smalser:

http://www.cianperez.com/Wood/WoodDocs /Wood_How_To/Smalser_on_Drawknives.htm (http://www.cianperez.com/Wood/WoodDocs/Wood_How_To/Smalser_on_Drawknives.htm)

[ 04-22-2005, 11:52 AM: Message edited by: Alan D. Hyde ]

[davebrown]

You guys are too much. GREAT info.

Brian Palmer, both sets I have made have incorporated the center ridge down the length of the blade. Something about that design appeals to my eye, and it makes sense to dispense with a little weight where one can. Thus, I will buy the curved and the flat spokeshave.

I got some good spruce at the local HD for $7 and am ready to go.

[essaunders]

Ah ha. Thanks Bob. How'd I miss that. I just need a thinner file....

[Tom Robb]

I've not been very happy w/ my cast iron spoke shaves. A neat Lee Valley/Veritas wood handled one was given to me as a present. Very nice tool. It'll make you glad every time you pick it up :cool:

[davebrown]

Here's an interesting bit of insight: I started building boats after making probably 25 pieces of handmade furniture. I had little money for tools, but I did buy planes and the like at estate sales up in St. Paul. I didn't know what I was doing in the beginning, and bought some rather poor jackplanes, for example. But after I sharpened them and got them really rolling, I found most were adjustable or with a slight amount of compensation for their defects, very servicable. Sometimes perseverence will reveal the method for using a mediocre tool. That's not to say that some of them wouldn't be better in the dumpster...
Incidentally one of the best planes I have I bought new from a gypsy in a flea market in paris. It is russian, humorously, with the brand name "stanko". I paid at the time $9 for it, and bought one for my father as well. He calls it "The Commander". It is roughly made, heavier than hell, and a wonderful tool to use once you get used to it...

[Keith Wilson]

know Bruce ain't recommending them, but be careful buying Kuntz brand tools, fellas....they are pretty rough. Might be less work to get an older Stanley #51 or #151 off of Ebay in the 15-dollar range and tune it up:
You aren't kidding about Kunz tools being rough. And my God! Who thought up that puke-green and red paint scheme?

http://www.woodworkersshop.com/Scrapers/Kunz_adjustable_spokeshave.jpg

The Stanley #151 (flat) and 152 (curved) are still in production and are available from lots of places for around $25 each. One source. (http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=5130)
http://www.mackay.co.uk/acatalog/11323.jpg

Recently Indian-made clones of Stanley tools (Anant and Groz) have become available in the US. The ones I've seen have seemed of at least reasonable quality, perhaps as good as recent Stanley tools. Here's a source. (http://www.woodworkersshop.com/Anant_Spokeshaves.htm)

http://www.woodworkersshop.com/Scrapers/A151_Anant_Flat_Face.jpg

And check out all the different types of planes still in production at the Anant company web site. (http://www.anant-tools.com/iron_bodied_bench_planes.php?lang=en)

[ 04-22-2005, 04:38 PM: Message edited by: Keith Wilson ]