Skipper Freed From Capsized Vendee Globe Sailboat

[Hollingsworth]

January 6, 2009
Skipper Freed From Capsized Vendee Globe Sailboat

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Filed at 3:34 p.m. ET

PARIS (AP) -- French skipper Jean Le Cam was freed from his capsized yacht in a daring rescue by a rival west of Cape Horn in the Vendee Globe solo around-the-world race on Tuesday.

Le Cam was reported by race officials to be healthy and aboard the PRB, the boat of fellow skipper Vincent Riou.

The rescue came as a surprise. Organizers expected a Chilean naval vessel to extract Le Cam on Wednesday.

Riou was the first to reach Le Cam's yacht, which capsized overnight Monday. Riou reported to officials that he could hear Le Cam shouting from the overturned boat.

[Thorne]

Interesting to see how it was done when more details are available.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/01/06/sports/sail6.php

[Concordia...41]

Well this kinda gives new meaning to the phrase "having a bad day..." :eek:

http://img.iht.com/images/2009/01/06/sail6pic.jpg

[Thorne]

Not only that, but everyone can see the keel design...

[ben2go]

That is a very scary and sad.It's an erie site to see sails floating beneath the surface of the water.

[The Bigfella]

Are any of these "boats" going to make the finish line?

[JimD]

Are any of these "boats" going to make the finish line?
They really are quite ridiculous designs for going to sea in.

[J. Dillon]

To me it looks like the apparently excessive beam didn't allow the external ballast right the boat. :eek: I guess he had lots of sail "up."

JD

[mizzenman]

I can't se any keel bulb on foil:confused:

[paladin]

That's a high aspect ratio centerboard......

[StevenBauer]

I can't see any keel bulb on foil:confused:


That's exactly what I thought when I saw that pic. Sure would explain the capsize, eh?


Steven

[Concordia...41]

Yeah. I'm reminded of the comedy skit that's been posted here a couple of times where "the front fell off" 'cause it looks like his bulb fell off :rolleyes:

One minute you're flying along fine and pretty. And then. Well. You're not... :eek:

Signed -
Full Keel

[Hollingsworth]

Is that what they call a "can't" keel?

[Paul Pless]

Signed -
Full Keel=->:D

[Brian Palmer]

I am amazed at the amount of major stuff that has just "broken."

So far, different boats have had to retire because, among other things, the keel bulb fell off, the mainsail delaminated, and the ram controlling the canting keel came apart. Several boat have lost their rigs completely.

Only 14 of the original 30 are still in the race.

I understand that to win you have to be fast, and to be fast you have to be light, and to push the limits. But to win, you also have to finish.

So, is it the boats being built too light, or the racers not backing off soon enough to protect the boat? Or just bad luck?

Brian

[Bobcat]

I am amazed at the amount of major stuff that has just "broken."

So far, different boats have had to retire because, among other things, the keel bulb fell off, the mainsail delaminated, and the ram controlling the canting keel came apart. Several boat have lost their rigs completely.

Only 14 of the original 30 are still in the race.

I understand that to win you have to be fast, and to be fast you have to be light, and to push the limits. But to win, you also have to finish.

So, is it the boats being built too light, or the racers not backing off soon enough to protect the boat? Or just bad luck?

Brian

Probably all three factors in various doses.

Nothing new here. I just read that all the tea clipper ships were dismasted at one time or another. The obvious result of driving any vessel as hard as you can for as long as you can.

[WX]

A mono hull yacht that can't right itself is a dangerous design.

[George Roberts]

I guess most of these boats are special built for this race and have no track record.

One design methodology to use when your competition is for the most part unknown is to build as close to the bleeding edge as possible. This methodology seldom finishes mid pack. They either finish near the top or don't finish.

Other methodologies may have a better chance of finishing but less chance of finishing near the top.

To some a spectacular failure is almost as good as a win.

[outofthenorm]

It's interesting (and tragic) that the boat has remained inverted. IIRC, the boats were required to pass a self righting rollover test before they qualified.

I suppose you could put it down to the simple fact that "real racers wreck" ... in cars, balloons, skis, dog sleds, airplanes and shopping carts, racers crash because they take risks that common sense says are stupid. Goes with the territory.

- Norm

[Woxbox]

Well, it does look like the ballast bulb is gone, in which case it wouldn't self-right no matter what. I beleive part of the reason for the canting keel is that the boat should be able to self right.

The big difference with the clipper ships pushing the edge was that they carried men, tools and materials to fix just about anything that might break in the rig.

[The Bigfella]

Only 14 of the original 30 are still in the race.

I make it 13

Here's a link

http://www.vendeeglobe.org/en/ranking.html

[Noah]

Just to clear this up, he is missing the bulb on the keel. Details aren't in yet, but it detached from the boat at some point. He had enough time to make a phone call to race head quarters, but was cut off mid call - probably as the boat capsized.

If I remember correctly during the last Vendee Globe one of the skippers sailed the last few miles into the finish without a ballast bulb as well - very gingerly - but he did finish.

I would say that it's actually to these boat's credit that the have so much form stability as well as righting moment.

All of the boats need to be able to self right - but without the bulb on the boat this is unlikely to happen. They then do the next best thing, which is float upside down.

[johnw]

If they were to limit the sail area, the boats wouldn't get so fat, the forces on them would be less, and the chances of them self-righting would be better.

Of course, if you loose the ballast, you're screwed. I saw a boat lose its keel in an inshore race. Wooden boat with a wooden mast, so without the ballast, it just laid on its side while the skipper sat on the gunwale waiting for help.

He had to buy a whole new keel, but the boat was fine.

Personally, I don't see the point of sailing alone around the world unless you get to stop at the nicer bits and have a wee dram with the locals.

[Hwyl]

Just to reiterate what Noah said. The boats are required to pass a capsize test and have an escape hatch.
.

It's true that this capsize would never had happened if he was spending the time deciding whether to use CPES or not

[Brian Palmer]

The boats are required to pass a capsize test, but they are allowed to take the test without the rig in place.

One boat in this year's race did capsize and withdrew, but sailed on its own to shore, albeit with a damaged rig.

Brian

[ahp]

Remember America's Cup eliminations a few years ago off the west coast of Australia. It was a windy day with lumpish seas and a French boat simply broke in half and sank. The crew got off ok. Sailing eggshells!

[Concordia...41]

It's true that this capsize would never had happened if he was spending the time deciding whether to use CPES or not

Slam! :D

[JimD]

They spend how many millions on these boats and can't figure out a way to keep the ballast stuck on? Run out of crazy glue? Decided to go with the Aylmer's instead? Its no secret they sacrafice safety and anything else that gets in the way of speed.

[Woxbox]

They spend how many millions on these boats and can't figure out a way to keep the ballast stuck on? Run out of crazy glue? Decided to go with the Aylmer's instead? Its no secret they sacrafice safety and anything else that gets in the way of speed.


Very true. But it's also true that a very high percentage of what makes a traditional wood yacht look as impressive as it does originated in the quest for maximum performance. Nat, among other things, was a master at making the mechanical bits just as strong as they needed to be and not a bit more. Nothing has changed in this department.

[JimD]

Very true. But it's also true that a very high percentage of what makes a traditional wood yacht look as impressive as it does originated in the quest for maximum performance. Nat, among other things, was a master at making the mechanical bits just as strong as they needed to be and not a bit more. Nothing has changed in this department.

How many of Nat's keels fell off?

[George Roberts]

"They ... can't figure out a way to keep the ballast stuck on? Run out of crazy glue?"

Several builders have lost bulb keels by relying on just the composite to hold the bulb on. (The preferred method is to run steel from the hull to the bulb and use properly sized fasteners on both ends.)

[andrewe]

The local paper is full of it, mainly as it sets off from this department and several of the skippers hail from the area.
Yes, the bulb did fall off and he was on the phone to the guy who picked him up when it happened and was cut off.
The rescuer made several passes to get a rope aboard, on the 4th he managed it ,but damaged one of his rig poles.(caught it on the remains of the fin) They are now making their way to the Beagle channel. The tanker standing by said it was too rough to launch a boat.(4mtr waves and gusting 40kts) They realised he was probably ok when he manually releast his 2nd Epirb at daybreak. According to one report he also fired a flare though the log fitting.
Andrew

[Hwyl]

The boats are required to pass a capsize test, but they are allowed to take the test without the rig in place.



No, the rig has to be in, although the rigs don't weigh too much these days.

[Brian Palmer]

No, the rig has to be in, although the rigs don't weigh too much these days.

Really? With all due respect, are you talking about stability or capsize (self righting) tests?

The videos I've seen of the self righting tests all show the rig not in the boat. They are flipped at the dock by a crane, so it is not possible to flip them with the rig still in place (lack of deep water).

E.g.:

http://www.imoca.org/container.asp?id=6243

Brian

[Brian Palmer]

Another Vendee Globe Open 60 appears to have lost the bulb off the keel. The boat is Roland Jourdain’s Veolia Environnement, and she is in second place, but will try to make it to the Azores, still about 600 miles, away to assess the problem and confirm the bulb is missing.

http://www.vendeeglobe.org/en/news/8807/bilou-i-can-t-explain-why-i-didn-t-capsize-the-jackal-is-in-waiting.html

The boat is still sailing, but under much reduced sail and relying on water ballast. That's gotta .....

Brian

[Mad Scientist]

Really? With all due respect, are you talking about stability or capsize (self righting) tests?

The videos I've seen of the self righting tests all show the rig not in the boat. They are flipped at the dock by a crane, so it is not possible to flip them with the rig still in place (lack of deep water).

E.g.:

http://www.imoca.org/container.asp?id=6243

Brian

That video aired on the Canadian version of Discovery Channel last year. I, too, wondered why there was no rig attached - a rig with the sail 'up' might provide lots of resistance during the righting procedure???
And, as previously mentioned by other posters, the weight of the keel bulb is a vital ingredient in the mix.

Tom

[johnw]

Righting it with the rig in and sails on might tear things up. Could turn it into a very expensive test.

[Brian Palmer]

The inversion tests are generally done without the rig because it is not practical to locate water that is deep enough to accommodate the "depth" of the rig (35 meters??), while still having access to a crane to invert the boat.

Otherwise, you would need to move the test offshore with a barge mounted crane. But, that would certainly make it more accurately simulate a real world situation.

Even so, these boats have been known to capsize and then right themselves during racing. It happened to one boat on the current race, and the rig survived mostly intact.

On an earlier race, however,, the boat capsized and stayed that way even with the keel in place.

Brian

[The Bigfella]

are there any boats still left in the race?

[Presuming Ed]

11 boats left. Race won by Mich Des in 84 days - second time he's won.

[The Bigfella]

Wow - almost 2/3rds retired. Maybe they should take some more weight out of them next time. I believe these guys drill holes in their toothbrushes to save weight.

[Brian Palmer]

Sam Davies on Roxy is now in third place. Her boat is the same one that Michel Desjoyeaux used to win his first Vendee Globe. Seems that the others could learn a thing or two from MD about building and setting up a good boat.

Brian