Mast Hoops Yea or Nay?

[Bobcat]

I have sailed my Bobcat for two seasons with wooden mast hoops. No real problem aside from the occassional minor hang up.

For Xmas I received Dynamite Payson's Building the Instant Catboat. In it, he recommends lacing the luff with three cringles to the mast and notes that Phil Bolger specifies no mast hoops on the plans. Now that I have the plans, I can see it for myself

When I rerig the boat this spring, I am tore between keeping the status quo or dumping the mast hoops.

What's the collective wisdom on mast hoops for a small catboat?

[Ian McColgin]

I'm thinking of trying a lacing this winter. Gotta a couple broken hoops past my spare and want to try the lacing before I get new hoops.

The lacing that works for a sail that's hoisted is not a spiral but rather a sort of shuttle - there are other threads. The disadvantage is how to handle the developing slack when reefing without going up to the mast. I think I can do this by making the line fast to each of the three reef tacks. I also think that on the very steep gaff I have I can make it one lacing peak to throat to tack and thus make the head tension more controllable by playing the peak and throat halyards.

Will report when I get around to it, likely in mid-March.

[G.Sherman]

Keep them, what will you use them for otherwise? Planning on entering some kind of international rig toss event?:confused:

[outofthenorm]

I switched from hoops to laces about 20 years ago and never looked back. The lacing is simple once you get the idea in your head. Advantages are less windage, less weight and no chafe on your mast varnish. And also, no hoops to maintain. Very light line is fine for lacing. On a Bobcat, you could go with 3/16.

- Norm

[Mrleft8]

I use 1/4" nylon sash cord. Inelligant, but effective.

[Bobcat]

Keep them, what will you use them for otherwise? Planning on entering some kind of international rig toss event?:confused:


That's easy: I juggle. I figure juggling mast hoops would be a hit at any wooden boat festival. :D

[Ian McColgin]

And the hoops make dandy form holders for top and bottom of the ultimate rigger's bag.

I've only used lacing on sails that can't be reefed anyway. Those with reefing experience on laces, am I right about securing to the tacks?

[J. Dillon]

My vote is for robands. They can be as simple as a length of line passed through the sail's gommet and tied with a square knot or as elaborate as an eye and toggle.

Presently I'm using a laid up loop that is lashed to the sail's grommet. It stays on for the season and if I have to take the sail off for repair etc. I just unstep the mast and take off the sail.

http://triton.imageshack.us/Himg68/scaled.php?server=68&filename=nzthompsonspreadsherwinix2.jpg&xsize=578&ysize=480

Above is an image of a topsail schooner that is quite happy with a lacing line. It gave no trouble as outlined in this yarn.

http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61697&page=13


JD

[James McMullen]

Can you re-use those hoops to make cup-holders? That would make a hit at the boat show, I reckon.

[TerryLL]

I've always laced, both gaff and sprit rigs. Never a problem hoisting or dousing.

[Ian McColgin]

I've laced plenty where there was not occasion for reefing. Sails go up and down fine. The reason they do is that with proper lacing, the line's grip on the mast, the effective tightness, and thus how closely the luff follows the mast, is reduced the moment the halyard is slacked. So when reefed, there's a bit of loose luff lacing jumbled up below the reef tack. That will pull out if you sail a while reefed.

So one solution would be to secure the lace, perhaps tying the bight off to a handy cleat on the mast, after the reef is set. This is one more thing to do and I want to eliminate it.

Specific question to any who have laced to a mast and regularly reef: Does securing the lace line to each reef tack solve the problem of how to keep the luff against the mast when reefed?

[Ian McColgin]

A second nice thing about hoops is that they let the sail follow the wind around the mast quite nicely. I know this does not matter much on the wee spars I've had lacings on - dory masts and such - and the wee sails that go with it. Marmalade's main is a very authoritative 550 feet and the mast is nearly a foot in diameter at the partners. Thus there is a lot of movement of the line the luff makes up the mast as you bear off. Like 18" side to side. Hoops accomodate this nicely but what of the lacing?

Marmalade's former owners liked lacing but they did not sail when reefs were needed and they'd renamed her "Lady Bandit" so I want to form my own experience on this one.

[rbgarr]

I used some mast hoops from my old Beetle cat as curtain ties in my office. I didn't close the curtains very often and it was nice to see them there.

I've often wondered whether a zipped sleeve luff would work on a small catboat that would never be reefed. Getting it zipped up might be dicey while standing up in the eyes of the boat, but what the hell....

[outofthenorm]

Ian, my main is about 400 sq ft and the mast is about 9 inches at the bands, so not much smaller than yours. I've had zero issues with the laced sail settling properly behind the mast. It moves side to side just fine. The proviso is to not set the lacing up too tight, lest it bind. I use 1/4 inch braid.

My practice has been to belay the lacing at the upper grommet and lead it loosely through each subsequent one, passing back and forth around the mast as you describe. The lower end is secured at the tack grommet - I tie it off to itself. It gets tensioned by the throat halyard the same way the luff does. As you raise sail, it tightens gradually but never binds. As soon as you lower away even a bit, it slacks nicely and slides down freely. For most sailing, it's "set it and forget it". If I'm fussy, I'll ease it off the wind, but not every time.

When reefing, I lower away to the reef, tie it in, then re-hoist to tension the luff. Then if needed (usually not) I snug up the lacing line. The thing to remember if you do tighten the lacing is to loosen it again BEFORE you shake out the reef - DAMHIKT.

Norm

[Ian McColgin]

Thank you Norm. I'm hoping to avoid having to tie the lace while reefing as it's important to me to be able to handle the boat safely alone in all weather. Especially in the conditions where I'm moving from second to third reef, it's a bit lumpy and being able to get the tack and clew settled from the cockpit is of great value. I do this hove-to, of course, with the gaff about horizontal. I then move along seated on the cabin tethered to a jackline tying in the individual pendents. If I have to fiddle with the lacing, I guess I could approach it as essentially the foremost pendent.

But I'm hoping that if the lacing is fixed at the reef cringles, I won't have to adjust. We'll see. I have some partly made hoops around and if I finish them up I may still keep with the hoops. They are so nice when I have an energetic young teen along who wants to climb the mast when underweigh . . .

[outofthenorm]

They are so nice when I have an energetic young teen along who wants to climb the mast when underweigh . . .

I think that's likely the best reason of all to keep the hoops. ;)

[Ian McColgin]

Yeah.

Reminds me of me.

(Extra points to who ever names the actor and movie.)

I run a line from the gaff jaws parells down hitched to each hoop such that when the sail's up and peaked, the line holds the hoops just a bit south of horizontal. That way the line picks up the front of each hoop as you hoist, keeping them from binding, and it gives a nice firm ladder supported at two points. It actually makes the hoops strong enough for my 220#.

I've yet to worry much about a kid falling. I watch closely and so far every kid who could get up a little is good to go. I do spend some time in basic climbing instruction, including emergency grabs and fall plan incase something breaks. Nice thing about a cat mast - almost impossible to land on the boat anyway.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Sterling Hayden ?

[Ian McColgin]

I'll report on whether securing the lace line at each reef tack does it. If not, I'm definatly sticking with hoops. In most reefs having to adjust the lace line is not the end of the world as one gets up there tying in the points anyway. . . Except there are those wild times when you reef clew and tack, maybe have the gaff a bit scandalized, and just let the bunt hang in the jacks for a while as you race off for your life. All that under-regulated bunt needs to be tied in to go to weather but off the wind it's often better to get safe first. And if the luff lace can loosen up, then the bunt just gets worse and worse.

We'll see.

*It was John Wayne in true grit, watching Kim Darbey ford the river while he and Glenn Campbell take the ferry raft.

[dennisbur]

John Wayne in "True Grit"

[Thad Van Gilder]

I laced the luff of IVY's main, and strung lignum vitae parrels on it. I was very happy with that.

-Thad