A "true" lumberyard skiff

[jtrieck]

A couple of years ago I built the "Six-hour Canoe" from the WB article. I did everything right: marine plywood, 12:1 scarfs, WEST epoxy, etc.... I spent more than I should have and when I got it in the water I found it to be too tender for my needs (standing-up and fly fishing). HOWEVER, I learned a ton about what I needed and how to build a boat.

One thing I learned was that next time, I am not going to use quality materials until I have proven the design.

So, when the Lumber Yard Skiff came along in the first "Getting Started in Boats" supplement I thought that a little beamy rowboat might be something to give a shot.

Unfortunately, the article is misleading - nice wide clear planks 16' long and 10" wide ain't exactly at the lumberyards (read Home Center) 'round these parts!

Fortunately, I ain't trying to make it last, I am just trying to figure out if these style skiffs can work for what I want to do.

So here is the first installment of a bastardized LYS, built with the cheapest stuff at the Home Depot:

This is the mold:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_wcbCn6FOsRE/SYh38JGUZeI/AAAAAAAAABM/P5ePJoFU-mM/s400/Mold.JPG

And the transom:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_wcbCn6FOsRE/SYh5in-CATI/AAAAAAAAABU/j6J0gO4aj3A/s400/Transom.JPG

The stem:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_wcbCn6FOsRE/SYh7R2cjkyI/AAAAAAAAABc/3dDaW-kWOn4/s400/Thestem.JPG

The screw-scarf experiment:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_wcbCn6FOsRE/SYh8eW80YtI/AAAAAAAAABk/3kT2lYzwHLc/s400/Screwscarf.JPG

A close-up of the probably doomed screw-scarf:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_wcbCn6FOsRE/SYh91OMHdbI/AAAAAAAAABs/0pJVB-YpzHk/s400/Screwscarfdetail.JPG

The solid wood is that cheap, generally clear "whitewood" they sell, the plywood quarter-inch exterior pine. I did buy a nice long 2x10" that I am going to rip into strips for the chines and gunwales.

I am curious to see how the screw-scarf works out. My expectation is that as I try to bend it around the mold it will give way. Then I will have to become "creative" or just scarf it right like I should have the first time. I am also going to give that PL Premium a try too!

I know it looks like a house of cards - it's much less stable than that!

My goal is it will hold up long enough for me to get in the water, paddle around a bit and figure out if it is stable enough for my purposes.

Stay tuned....

[Dan McCosh]

If you want clear, large dimension lumber at HD, try the red cedar in the decking dept.

[Spokaloo]

If there is any way to make the butt block taller (within the same tolerance as the lower edge), it will hold fine. I have built several little beater rowboats to that shape that worked out great with a similar block.

E

[Tom Robb]

That "scarf" as Spookaloo suggested isn't. It's a butt-block. Glue and screw (please no drywall screws) works ok but may give a hard spot (less than fair curve.) No big deal there. And as he said make it as near full width as practical.
You'd need a better sense of balance than most of us to stand up in a Six Hour canoe.
If Big Box lumber is the only choice, search through the entire stock for the best ones and neatly restack the pile if you expect to return to the store.
Is Big Box the only source for you?

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

That "white wood" at Home depot is probably poplar, which will rot.
The butt block won't work.

[Captain Blight]

1/4" birch underlayment ply is available and is laminated with waterproof glues. Just FYI.

Also in the decking department, you might find 3-1/2" x 10' or 12', 3/4" thick T&G, QS douglas fir. Porch decking is what I think they sell it as.

[Spokaloo]

Those are white pine boards, #2 if I had to guess. We get those here as well. Pretty common board for the PNW in that selection. Mildly rot resistant, works reasonably well. Definitely not poplar, check out the knots.

You can get pretty lucky as well looking through the stacks of studs. I have found some fantastic tight knot fir in the pile, graded out for a knot or two at the ends of the board.

E

[Dan McCosh]

Not sure where you are, but around here I've bought some nice white cedar sold as fence boards; the aforementioned red cedar sold as decking in Lowes; found white oak sold for loading pallets, etc. Even a quick boat building project ends up using up more time than materials, and a little looking around might uncover some reasonable boat wood for not too much cost. If the boat turns out nice and does what you want, you then have a nice boat.

[donald branscom]

Home Depot IS NOT A LUMBER YARD !!!

It is a dime store that sells some wood.

They have some wood but they probably don't even know anything about it.

[jerry bark]

as for the "scarphs" supposing you have some west system left over from the canoe I would put an 8 inch wide strip of fiberglass across the back side of that joint and epoxy it on withe the west. if you do that on the out side of that side panel I bet it will hold up pretty well for your testing.

good luck,
jerry

BTW: its tough to dare to be different around here!

[jimmy lee]

Jtrieck, I built a Lumberyard Skiff two winters ago. She rows just fine. I added a Sprit-sail to Her and She sails quite nice. I use Her for fishing and daysailing. She is a simple boat to build. I used clear pine boards for the whole build. I painted Her in House latex paint and Water base exterior varnish. I used West System epoxy for all glue joints. She as good as new,sitting on Her trailer in the garage waiting for spring to show up. Good luck with Your Skiff. I am very happy with My Lumberyard Skiff. Sincerely,Jimmy Lee

[ABfish]

Jt-
I also built a "bastardized" version of the LS, in a roundabout way.

I glued-up the sides from cypress lumber I had on hand. I also cross-planked the bottom with cypress, using two layers of 3/8" planks.

I did not seal the bottom planks before installing; that is, I installed one layer, then installed the second layer, then painted the inside of the boat, and then painted the outside. Thus, the interior faces of the bottom planks were not painted.

My boat did not leak a drop when launched, but....after a couple of uses, including inadvertantly leaving the boat outside in a thunderstorm, the bottom planks on my boat started to cup severely. Apparently moisture had become trapped between the layers.

I eventually pulled off the cross-planked bottom, and installed a plywood bottom using 1/2 inch A/C plywood. I glued the bottom in place with PL Premium and nailed it with 1-1/4 in. stainless siding nails. I coated both sides of the bottom with epoxy, and sheathed the outside, up to the water line, with 6 oz. fiberglass.

A few lessons that I've learned:
-cross planking is probably okay for a boat that stays in the water, but is not a good choice for a trailered boat that is kept in a shed.

-if you double-plank the bottom, the wood should be sealed between the planking layers to prevent cupping

-the plywood bottom is quicker, easier, and cheaper to install, and a lot less likely to leak. I'm sure that my boat would have been fine with a painted plywood bottom without the fiberglass and epoxy, but I looked at the fiberglassing as a learning opportunity, in preparation for a more complex boat.

[StevenBauer]

I find it hard to believe that you don't have a regular lumberyard near you. Where exactly is "around here"?


Steven

[ABfish]

I find it hard to believe that you don't have a regular lumberyard near you. Where exactly is "around here"?


Steven

The original poster is raising an issue that was much-discussed on the original LYS Forum. Assuming you can locate it, the cost of 1x16 clear pine is prohibitively expensive.

[Hughman]

Too right, box stores aren't lumberyards.

However, I've seen some useful materials to build boats in them, especially if you go out back and look over the pallets :eek:

here's a sampler: for frames, knees, and other hard wear bits, find pallets with oak runners, especially ones with just a few slats on the bottom, less nail holes - doesn't matter what kind of oak, as long as you can get some reasonably clear sections. Ash is a common pallet material, it looks like oak, but it rots if left in fresh water.

Pulling pallet nails is a pain,due to the type of nail - brittle, textured shank, and rusty. My solution to this is a 6 foot wrecking bar and a hefty vise-grips. First, cut/smash the cross slats with a skill saw/chain saw/other fun method, throw in stove kindling pile. This leaves the nail heads exposed.

Try the nail with the claw on the bar, you might get lucky and remove the nail. Usually the head will pop off to lodge in your eye at high velocity. attach the vise grips to the nail, slide the claw under the grips, and remove the nail. It goes quickly once you get going.

This isn't much of a worry if this is a trailer boat kept covered, or if everything will be slathered in epoxy. (For this kind of boat, I wouldn't spend the money on epoxy. Leftover (oil based) paint is less weight and fine for the purpose.

Box stores sell 'leger boards', meant for cement forms. these are usually spruce, sawn rough, and cheap. they are actually ideal for boat projects, and usually free of knots and other objections. They make acceptable planking or cross plank bottoms.

happy building!

[jtrieck]

Thanks y'all for your thoughts about scrounging about the home centers.

I totally agree about the original LYS - it's heavy with all that 3/4" pine.

Now that Babson 14 - THAT's a good looking boat! If this boat works for my needs I am going to build the Babson and "do it right" - what with marine ply, fancy epoxy, I might even make those spoon bladed oars I saw in a "how-to" in an old WB! What a great looking boat!

I'll get some time to work on my folly this week and I will try and post some pictures as it comes to fruition.

I know y'all are especially waiting for the launching shot - wherein the builder/captain goes down with the ship after the screw-butts explode!

[BrianM]

I just saw a Dory Skiff get built in the last 4 weeks out of HD materials. Fair curves, lightweight (he used the 5mm Luan Door skins).. and he HAS a boat. The guy did not have much money so he built what he COULD. He'll be using it everyday, so it will get plenty of attention (he lives on a mooring in Richardson bay).

Yea, I'm sure plenty of people will make a big deal out of the idea that "your labor is sacred, why use secondclass materials"... I don't think that would mean much to somebody who simply doesn't have much money.

The other thing I don't get is everytime I see a build with marine grade plywood, everybody slathers over the thing with Epoxy. What was the point of using "Superior rot resistant veneer"? or "Waterproof glue" in the laminations if you are going to encapsulate anyhow? VOIDS SCHMOIDS! The first skiff I built served a long life in S.F. Bay, built of ordinary AC exterior. Served me well and I was able to afford it's costs (I was 12 years old).
\
Anyhow, build away and enjoy the process!

[Tom Robb]

Build what you can with what you can get/afford. It's been done that way for eons. If the oportunity and the growing skills ever get there, build that masterpiece with the best stuff available - unobtanium if you can find it.
In the meantime you'll have a boat to mess with and your learning curve will begin to tilt upward.
We're supposed to be having fun here aren't we?

[ssor]

I have more time than money and if the economy continues the present trend I will have a lot more time than money. I built a Bolger/Payson Nymph with lauan 1/4 inch plywood and polyester resin ten years ago and it is still completely serviceble.

[BrianM]

I've seen quite a few rotten boats either barely afloat, or being hacked to pieces by the "Knacker". Several looked like they'd been repaired, or built with ordinary AC plywood and similar "non-marine" materials. What they all had in common was neglect.

I don't believe it makes much sense to build a boat meant to last for 50-100 years, if you are going to live for 20.

Same reasoning was used when all the "classics" where built using iron fasteners.. and you can't get more traditional than them....