Looking for car-topped rowing boat plans

[rmann]

I am looking for plans for an easily car topped rowing boat for lazy river conditions. I will be moving the boat from garage to car to water single handed. I have little wood working experience and no boat building experience.
I would rather not use rowing 'wings' but mount the rowlocks directly on the gunnel.
Based on my experience of car topping canoes and kayaks, I think I am looking for a pulling boat around 40 lbs in weight, 13 feet in length, and with a beam around 38 inches.
I have found two nice Adirondack guideboats in the Mystic Seaport's collection (the Parson's and Blanchard) but I don't know what they would weigh, or if they can be adapted to wood-strip epoxy.
Does anyone know any designs/plans for a light and easily car-topped rowing boat?

[TerryLL]

Phil Bolger has a nice one:

http://www.instantboats.com/images/cartopper1.jpg




11 '6"x4'0"
92 Lbs.
TACK and TAPE construction
BASIC MATERIALS: 4 sheets ,4"x4'x8' AC or Marine Grade Plywood. Fiberglass: 24 Lbs 3" Glass Tape; 2 Gallons Resin; 10 yds 38" Cloth; 5 Lbs Fillite powder.
PLANS: 4 sheets with keyed building instructions includes sail rigs.
Dacron sails available from H. H. Payson & Co. (http://www.instantboats.com/)

http://www.instantboats.com/images/cartopper2.jpg
http://www.instantboats.com/images/cartopper3.jpg

http://www.instantboats.com/cartopper.htm

[James McMullen]

BHOFM is right, your weight expectations are sorta unrealistic for a fixed-seat rowboat of those dimensions. I think you're looking at about 60 lbs, minimum--and that will give you a pretty flimsy boat.

[kenjamin]

Check out Ross Lillistone's Flint.

http://www.baysidewoodenboats.com.au/

A very able 14' 9" rowboat, simple stitch and glue build, flotation chambers greatly increase safety, and it can take a small outboard. It's near the upper end of cartoppable weight at 110 lbs. , but it's a good rower with a nice bit of reserve boyancy. You only need to lift one end of the boat at a time.

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

Jacques Mertens offers such a boat. It's called the "Row 13". It's 13½' X 52".
http://www.bateau.com/proddetail.php?prod=R13
He says the boat can be built much lighter than the standard model by downsizing the ¼" ply to 4 mm and the 3/8" to 6mm. It has to be built with BS1088 okuome and every effort must be made to use as little epoxy as possible. I doubt a first timer could get close to the design weight but careful building could get you about an 80 pounder.
Of course, being built so lightly it will never be anything but a rowboat and the number and weight of it's occupants has to be considered before putting out on the deep.
38" is very narrow for a rowboat. There are probably some that narrow but I would say 42" is a more convenient limit for a conventional rowboat.

[htom]

I think you're looking for something like the Geodesic AiroLITE Classic 14 (http://gaboats.com/boats/classic14.html) or Classic 12 (http://gaboats.com/boats/classic12.html).

[keyhavenpotterer]

Iain Oughtred's Stickleback canoe is only 10' long and came out at 40 lbs and it would be difficult to build much lighter than that in ply or wood.

Build Blog here
http://strathkanchris.wordpress.com/boats-i-have-built/stangarra/

[rbgarr]

I think you're looking for something like the Geodesic AiroLITE Classic 14 (http://gaboats.com/boats/classic14.html) or Classic 12 (http://gaboats.com/boats/classic12.html).

I agree with this recommendation, especially if 'lazy river boating' means no rapids with rocks to jam up against, accessible launching locations (no sharp rocks) and care not to put your foot wrong. Warm water would be a plus. (Isn't it always?) :D

[ChaseKenyon]

In the fifties Thompson made an ultralight car topper. I had one waiting for restoration that I gave away when the house was sold. (buyers bailed or their bank did after 43 months of working with them a week before the closing.)

It was about 40 inches wide and 11 ft 10 in long IIRC.

light weight canoe style planking covered by thin canvas and little tiny white cedar ribs about 5/8 by 5/8" on about 6 inch centers. Even with my bad back I carried up stairs to the loft of the barn.

It held two adult big guy muscular 6'2" fishermen with plenty of reserve and would go like a bandit with both of us in it and an old Merc Hurricane ten HP on the stern. Solo with the merc it flew.

You could copy one and stip build it out of white cedar and use dacron or dynell cloth with west or System 3.

Probably come out about 55LBS that way.

Check with the guys on the Thompson Dockside site and E magazine.

Cheers;)

[DGentry]

Jim Michalak has some relatively simple rowboat designs, perfect for the first time builder.
Check out his Robote 14'x45" 60lbs (seems light, to me) http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/robote/index.htm
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/robote/kahr2.jpg

or perhaps his Smoar 12'x 42" http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/smoar/index.htm
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/roar2/roar2a.jpg

With "little wood working experience and no boat building experience" you would do well to start out with something much less complex than an exquisite work of art like an Adirondack guideboat! But,that's just my opinion. The "unfinished for years," or altogether abandoned, boatbuilding project is a sad and common occurrence. For your first time, you are much more likely to achieve success with a simple and quick to build design, not to mention that your inevitable mistakes will be much less mentally and monetarily costly!

There are some great books to read about the subject. And you should read at least one! Try Jim Michalak's "Boatbuilding for Beginners and Beyond,"
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Pz41fjUgL._SL500_AA240_.jpg (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/1891369296/sr=8-1/qid=1237379969/ref=dp_image_0?ie=UTF8&n=283155&s=books&qid=1237379969&sr=8-1)
or any one of H.H. Payson's excellent books, perhaps starting with this one (which, btw, has plans for the aforementioned Cartopper): "Instant Boatbuilding with Dynamite Payson"
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51q-QoI957L._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA240_SH20_OU01_.jpg (http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0071472649/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-link)
or Gavin Atkin's book, "Ultrasimple Boatbuilding."
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51XZPG8-tcL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA240_SH20_OU01_.jpg (http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0071477926/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-link)

All of these books have plans and building instructions for a number of boats.
Whichever boat you choose, I wish you good luck. Boatbuilding is fun and addictive. Welcome to the club!

Dave Gentry

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

Another possibility. Merten's D-12 is a 12' x 44", S&G, flat-bottomed, bare bones, rowing/sailing double-ender. Design weight is about 62 lb. in 6mm/9mm okuome. It's, definitely, not a looker. It looks like a short, fat pirogue but would get the job done. And it's as simple a build as there is.
http://www.bateau.com/studyplans/D12_study.htm?prod=D12

[seo]

I have had very good luck rowing plain old regular canoes. They go remarkably fast, and with the rower's weight in the middle of the boat, rather than paddlers in the ends, the pitching moment becomes quicker, making it far better in a chop.
I hate to use the dread "A" word, but a 13' Grumman, which is a miserable canoe, is a good rowboat for poking-around use. Not a speed burner. Years ago I rigged up a 18' Old Town Otca for oars. First trial was with oarlocks fitted to blocks literally C-clamped to the gunwale, using an upside-down box as a seat. I think the oars were 7' long. The Otca is quite narrow, with more deadrise than a "Guide" model. It went fast, and tracked so straight that the trick was getting it to turn.
I've seen rowing seats for canoes, with a pair of athwartships bars that are separated by about a foot. They rest on the gunwales, and then dip down to support a seat maybe eight inches below gunwale height. The outboard ends of the bars extend out about eight inches from the side of the boat to make "outriggers" for the oarlocks. I've seen this done with aluminum tubing, but it would be an adventure in laminated wood construction.
A good canoe is a truly versatile vessel. Paddle, oar, sail, pole, or portage for propulsion, able to do flat water and limited white water. Molds are available to do strip-planked construction in many places that have canoe clubs, and real classics of wood-canvas can be found. Obviously, there's always the alternative of buying and modifying an existing production boat. Kevlar/epoxy is incredibly light, Royalex is unbelievably rugged. Aluminum canoes are everywhere, and roto-molded boats are cheap.
At least in Maine, yard sales and moving sales are good places to find cheap canoes.
40 pounds is a light canoe, but there are some light production canoes that fit that, and I think the 13' Grumman mentioned above fits the criterion.
For what it's worth, I've also rowed Gloucester Gulls and Adirondack guide boats. The Gull is a wonderful boat, but not a simple cartopper. The guide boat is pretty delicate and I don't think they row better than a canoe. They're lovely to look at, and for their purpose I think they were great. But the purpose was rather limited as I understand it, one guide, one sport, guide rows, sport fishes. Guide takes care of the boat as if it were his livelihood, does not drag it up beaches, bang rocks, etc.

[Thorne]

It would be nice if Mann would respond to our questions about his requirements, as the SOF boats are the only ones that meet them as stated.

My Cosine Wherry is designed to be a cartop boat, and could be handled by one person if the car is low enough and the build weight kept to a minimum. Use of a boat trolley is needed to get it to the water and back -

http://www.luckhardt.com/cb-inspection1.jpg

http://www.luckhardt.com/cb-shore1.jpg

[JimD]

Paul Fisher has a few in the 60 - 80 lb range that could easily be cartopped http://www.selway-fisher.com/Rowskiffs.htm :

http://www.selway-fisher.com/Medwayp1.jpg

http://www.selway-fisher.com/Adiro15p2.jpg

[David G]

John Welsford has a few that might be workable for you.

Seagull -- 15' - 3", 93#

http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/seagull/index.htm

Joansa -- 15' - 6", 85#

http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/joansa/index.htm

Michael Storer has a new design as well -- 15 - 6", 88#

http://www.storerboatplans.com/Rowboat/Rowboat.html

Or, how about Ian Oughtred's Acorn -- 11' - 9", 90#

http://www.jordanboats.co.uk/JB/IainO_Catalogue/Acorn%20Skiff.pdf


If you'd be willing to consider a trailered boat, your options open up dramatically. For instance, the Atkin designed George -- 16' X 4' X 4" draft.

http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Oar/George.html

[Ray Frechette Jr]

Cartopping is a Bear!

Yeah, you can do it,, but 13 feet 38 inch beam is awkward anyway you cut it.

Cartopping is way overrated in my humble opinion.

I would much rather have a small trailer for anything more than Kayaks.

But that is a personal preference.

[James McMullen]

I agree with Ray. If you weren't limiting yourself to an unrealistically light weight you would have a brazilian different models to choose from

[SScoville]

I just launched my Devlin Peeper - an 11'8 stitch n' glue rowing skiff. It's designed to weigh around 80 lbs. I don't know what mine weighs. I've taken it out twice - yesterday afternoon and today. I drive a Nissan Pathfinder. Getting it on and off the top of the car is tough on the way to launch. Getting it on and off after rowing for a while is no fun at all - a bit precarious actually. I'm gonna build a dolly to use and that way I can roll it to and from the car and then load it one end at a time.

[DGentry]

Cartopping is easy, with practice. I cartopped a 14', 130lb Laser all over North America, and it was usually easier for me to get it on and off the top of my truck all by myself, rather than coordinate with helpful bystanders. And, yes, I owned a trailer, but cartopping was much less of a hassle, and I sure didn't want to pull a trailer all over creation.
As has been previously mentioned, just lift one end at a time. It's a snap.

I've had more problems lifting and balancing heavy kayaks over my head, to cartop, than I did getting that Laser on the roof. Having a big, flat transom makes things a lot easier.

[Peter Belenky]

One reason some of those boats are heavy and awkward to cartop is that they are beamy enough to spread the oarlocks. Wayland Marine offers kits for the Merry Wherry and Merry Shell advertised at 35 pounds, 55 pounds with a Piantedosi RowWing that is removed for cartopping. http://www.merrywherry.com/ .
A kit would speed the process of getting a beginning boatbuilder on the water as well.

[David G]

Cartopping is a Bear!

Yeah, you can do it,, but 13 feet 38 inch beam is awkward anyway you cut it.

Cartopping is way overrated in my humble opinion.

I would much rather have a small trailer for anything more than Kayaks.

But that is a personal preference.

I have to agree. That's why I mentioned the idea of trailering.

I've cartopped canoes, kayaks, and an 8' dinghy. Not too difficult, but not wonderful, either. They kayaks were the easiest. We even cartopped our Goat Island Skiff for 2 summers before I broke down (take that any way you like) and got a trailer. At maybe 160#, and 5' X 16', it was a beast after a long weekend of sailing, drinking, rowing, and frivolity. I usually had one or two of my teenage boys to help put it up top of the van, but I did do it once by myself. As mentioned, one end at a time, and you can lift a substantial amount. Wouldn't want to do it again, though - both for the sake of the roof paint, and my poor old body.


"May the tap be open when it rusts" - Irish toast

[rmann]

Thanks for your replies and advice.

Wow - I haven't been on a boat building forum before , and I had no idea that there would be so many replies so quickly. I can only get to the site once a day. There are a lot of people with opinions about car topping!

It seems that 80-100 lbs is a more realistic weight for the dimensions that I stated. Maybe I was thinking of 40kg's. Maybe I wasn't thinking.

I do not have anywhere to store a trailer at present, hence the car topping approach. I agree that car topping can be difficult, and that this is usually because of a wide beam as well as weight, and it is made more difficult in the absence of a transom.

I have also thought of rowing a canoe, as I currently car top a small canoe and kayak. But my canoe doesn't row all that well. And whilst I would rather avoid outriggers, a narrower boat would be easier to car top. Carrying Place's 15'x36" Lakefield canoe could row OK with its reasonably flared sides.

Many very nice and practical boats have been suggested and thanks for this. It's going to take me a while to check out all these boats.

[keyhavenpotterer]

Great article on Duckworks about CLC Oxford Shell build down to 35 lbs so wife can load on car ok.

http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/09/projects/shell/index.htm

http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/09/projects/shell/ox055s.jpg

Thanks to Chris at Rowing for Pleasure for heads up.

http://www.rowingforpleasure.blogspot.com/

Brian

[seo]

I got curious about the comparitive beam of a canoe as compared to an Adirondack guide boat. An 18' Old Town Guide is 37" beam, while a 16' guide boat from "Adirondack Guide Boat" in Vermont is 40" beam, while a 13' Grumman is 35"

Which suggests that it's possible to get the same distance between oarlocks with some pretty modest blocks on the outside of the gunwales. As said in an earlier post, I've made these blocks so that they just C-clamped to the gunwale. Very elegant.

[Thorne]

Beam really isn't an issue for cartopping as long as the rack bars are wider than the beam, and you've got room to add padding/foam blocks to the gunwales to keep them from getting chewed up in transit or loading/unloading.

[seo]

I agree that beam doesn't limit a boat for car-topping. Narrow beam, however, does make for a limited rowing boat. Wide beam makes a boat that is very difficult to carry in traditional portage style, which is the thing that makes a canoe so easy to carry on a roof rack.
As long as the rack is: a) lower than your shoulders, and b) the bars stick out maybe an inch past the roof, then it is very easy for a single person to carry a canoe up to the car, and then sidle up to the rack and set one gunwale down on the rack. Then it's a question of being able to support the weight of half the boat while ducking out from under, and then sliding the boat sideways until both gunwales are up on the rack.
An alternative is having a handy prop stick that's the right length to support the offside gunwale while you make the transition. That's my technique, here in the Golden Years. Until we bought a mini-van, which is too high for this. That requires either two people, or sliding the boat on from the back of the van. Critical that the gunwales be smooth, and that the back rack is covered with carpet to prevent scratching the gunwale. I've thought of using a PVC pipe roller fitted over the rear rack bar, but never tried it.

Thorne, I would be very happy if you'd consider editing your citation of the "Duelists" to reflect that the screenplay is an adaptation of a Joseph Conrad short story called "The Duel." As I remember, the line about the "certain blind look" was in the story, so should be credited to the great Conrad...

[JimConlin]

I occasionally car-top this 18' x 3' pulling boat. The design is Ken Bassett's 'Liz'. Without the drop-in rig, it weighs 65 lbs.
http://www.conlin-boats.com/on_wagon-2.jpg

[Spokaloo]

Huh, thats kinda funny that my Duckworks article made it here that fast.

I have more info on that ultralight Oxford if anyone wants it. John Harris didn't sanction it, but it is a great boat.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b65/fighterama2/oxford/ox061.jpg

Also built a 17' Thames rowing wherry from Selway Fisher that went sub-100lbs and was cartoppable for two.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b65/fighterama2/thames/IMG_2705.jpg

Yes cartoppable:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b65/fighterama2/thames/thames032.jpg

[chicagoross]

Eric, I've considered the 14' thames; nice looking boats, but I don't wan't the sliding rig, and would like a bit more stability because of my kids. Good boat? Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be much of a place to discuss SF's designs, many of which are very nice looking boats. I check their board from time to time, but it's not very active.

This would be a keep me occupied project until I can afford a bigger load of epoxy...

[Spokaloo]

Even though he has the sliding rig in the 14, it isn't required. You can just as easily make it a fixed seat boat. They are lovely rowers...

Have you looked at CLC's Chester Yawl in lapstitch? it is relatively similar in size, has a little fuller bow, a much fuller transom, still very petite on the waterline, and is made to be either a single or dual fixed seat boat with flotation tanks. I bet that'd be a sweet setup in your waters. Hell Im thinking of building one personally....

E

[JotM]

...Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be much of a place to discuss SF's designs, many of which are very nice looking boats. I check their board from time to time, but it's not very active.


Have you looked into http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SFD_builders_sailors/ ? It's not like this forum, with 30-150 messages a month. But Paul Fisher keeps a close eye and when needed one will have a valuable answer to a question in no time.

[chicagoross]

Chester Yawl's a beauty, allright. Prices are reasonable; that's the one I'd have picked in the states. Can't ship plywood to Guam, though, thus the search for an alternative.

Bateau's got a couple of good servicable rowboats, but the multipanels look so much nicer than a 5 panels, and a wineglass stem looks much sexier on a small boat!:)

[Spokaloo]

You know JMM designed Rebecca to be a great rowing boat, but he pulled the plans before I could get a set. You should pimp him and I will join the chorus. She looked stunning, but for some reason he didn't leave anything up about her.

I do love a wineglass...

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b65/fighterama2/thames/cloudcap004.jpg

E

[chicagoross]

That's how the stern is supposed to look! S&G? And yet another boatbuilder with a toy taco trd...

[Spokaloo]

S&G, yup. Gotta give Paul credit, he knows how to draw 'em.

I think the Toy TuRD is the boatbuilder's vehicle of choice. Maybe they should do an ad campaign around them?

E