How to ruin a perfectly good little sail boat?

[JimD]

So this is what I've done to our Glen-L Minuet 15 in order to add some headroom and comfort to the cabin. I have a couple other threads for sorting out a suitable auxiliary sail for a boat that has for the most part been converted to a motor pocket cruiser. Still, I want at least some sort of sail to assist the motor and provide a modicum of emergency power if the engine fails. Any thoughts. Humour is allowed as long as its not really hurtful:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9dd38b3127ccec6f2a7e83a9000000040O00CbOGrVu4cMQ e3nw8/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9dd38b3127ccec6f295173a7600000040O00CbOGrVu4cMQ e3nw8/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9dd38b3127ccec6f39814db9700000040O00CbOGrVu4cMQ e3nw8/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The roof of the wheelhouse was originally this sliding hatch

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b7cf37b3127ccec2f48736cd5100000010O00CbOGrVu4cMQ e3nw8/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

[Thorne]

Interesting to see what it will look like when completed. I'm assuming that the fuel tank and other "motorsailor" stuff will add some ballast down low?

As for the sail rig, my suggestion on the earlier thread still seems good -- cobble up a cheap mast to see if she'll sail well and how moving the mast position impacts the balance. If it works, then build it right. If not, consider getting a used sail that will balance the boat.

[paladin]

I'd reinforce the area between the cabin and the forward hatch and insert a freestanding mast and rig a standing lug sail...minimum everything....only need something to attach a forestay, and a couple of pad eyes on deck..
Do you have a centerboard in it...?

[Ed Armstrong]

She looks like she's "tipping her hat" :)

Seriously, you've done a good job matching the curve of the top and materials. It'll be interesting to see how she looks when completed.

[Hwyl]

Not as bad looking as I feared. It has that "Caboose" look about it.

http://www.amboydepotmuseum.org/images/caboose3.jpg

I like the lug sail idea too

[john welsford]

A while ago, quite a while ago now that I think about it, there was a little heavy pilothouse cruiser featured in WoodenBoat. Built by someone with a Scandinavian name it was about 22 ft on deck, had a normal mast with jib, and a boomless spritsail. While this rig has some disadvantages, especially downwind it would allow the mainsail to be a reasonable area without putting it too high up, with no boom the foot could be lower than the caboose top, the sail could be brailed up rather than having to be dropped, and with the jib on a roller furler the whole lot could be set or struck from the cockpit.

JohnW

[seanz]

Humour is allowed as long as its not really hurtful:

Who gave you the paint? :p

Proportions look good, to my eye anyway.
Jim, you're an inspiration to all of us that want bigger boats than we can afford.

[JimConlin]

Not knowing about what heavy things might be below, I worry about what all that superstructure has done to the boat's stability.
If you add a mast, make it light (which means aluminum) and make it short.

[James McMullen]

Put a dipping lug on 'er, whydoncha? Short mast, minimal staying required. You obviously aren't all that into sailing for the sake of sailing or you wouldn't have made the modifications you've already done, so I don't see you short-tacking up a narrow channel or anything with it--you'll set sail when you're already on course, if you feel like it, and the conditions are okay, so tacking it won't be an issue. Bolger designed something like this for a motorsailer--he wrote about it in one or another of his books, somewhere. You'll get much more bang for your buck with a simple wood-sparred lug rig than you would with expensive roller-furlered sails and stayed masts.

[JimD]

I'm assuming that the fuel tank and other "motorsailor" stuff will add some ballast down low?

It has a 120# steel plate centerboard and 2 batteries below the cabin sole on either side of the CB case, so a total of about 250# all below the waterline. Plenty of room for more weight if required but its getting to be quite a bit heavier than designed so hopefully that will be enough.

[JimD]

I'd reinforce the area between the cabin and the forward hatch and insert a freestanding mast and rig a standing lug sail...minimum everything....only need something to attach a forestay, and a couple of pad eyes on deck.....

Very much what I was also thinking. The small square hole in the foredeck is for a tabernacle.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b7cf37b3127ccec2f48736cd5100000010O00CbOGrVu4cMQ e3nw8/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

On one of the other threads I posted this pic from the Atkin website as to what might end up being the best sail choice - dead simple and boomless:

http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Cruisers/images/Periwinkl-1.gif
Do you have a centerboard in it...?

Yes, 1/2" galvanized steel plate.

[JimD]

A while ago, quite a while ago now that I think about it, there was a little heavy pilothouse cruiser featured in WoodenBoat. Built by someone with a Scandinavian name it was about 22 ft on deck, had a normal mast with jib, and a boomless spritsail. While this rig has some disadvantages, especially downwind it would allow the mainsail to be a reasonable area without putting it too high up, with no boom the foot could be lower than the caboose top, the sail could be brailed up rather than having to be dropped, and with the jib on a roller furler the whole lot could be set or struck from the cockpit.

JohnW

Hi John. Thanks for stopping by. A simple balanced main is starting to sound like the best option. Not sure I want a jib, though. I was thinking a yawl mizzen would be handy. The original sailplan is 129 sq ft. I was thinking of something like 80 on the main and 20 for the mizzen would be about as much as would be prudent given all the extra weight and windage added up high. Sound familiar?

http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/treadlightly/tl.gif

[JimD]

Put a dipping lug on 'er, whydoncha?

Too much work getting the durn yard around the mast. :)

[JimD]

Who gave you the paint? :p

I'll have you know considerable deliberation went into the colour choice, young man.

[JimD]

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/5859/jokkerrzb8.gif

Sorry, couldn't help myself!!:D:D:D

Its a good thing your profile doesn't say where you live otherwise I'd have to come down there. And Prairie Lass has a matching dinghy, Pointless:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b8d624b3127ccec49ecca9046a00000040O00CbOGrVu4cMQ e3nw8/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

[JimD]

...If you add a mast, make it light (which means aluminum) and make it short.

Short it will be, but don't think I could live with aluminum. Birdmouth from spruce most likely.

[seanz]

young man.
:):):)

And a very nice colour it is too.

[JimD]

:):):)

And a very nice colour it is too.

I chose it 'cause I don't think this is the sort of boat that ought to be taking itself too seriously. I can see my strategy has worked.:)

[John B]

Nice shade, Is it poiple?

[TerryLL]

Nice shade, Is it poiple?

Heliotrope would be my guess, and toydilly goyjess.

[John B]

Daring.;)We've got a boigundy sabot, but poiple is out there man.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

Not as bad looking as I feared. It has that "Caboose" look about it.

I like the lug sail idea too

A Harry Lauder moment?

Hoots, mon, there’s a caboose loose aboot the hoose?

[JimD]

Its soit of poiple. Exterior house paint comes in so many shades with silly names I can't remember exactly what it was called.

[John B]

Aubergine?

[JimD]

Aubergine?

I think it was more like Three Berry Smoothy.

[David G]

Me like: pilothouse and paint

[JimD]

Not as bad looking as I feared. It has that "Caboose" look about it.

http://www.amboydepotmuseum.org/images/caboose3.jpg

I like the lug sail idea too

Put that caboose on a catboat hull and you'd have quite a nifty float home ;)

[JimD]

Come on down, as soon as you get to NW Arkansas,
just ask anyone where Sasquatch lives, everyone
knows my wife.:D:D:D

I'm on my way. You'll know me when I get there. I'll be the guy driving the purple pickup truck.

[paladin]

Jim...you could make a box mast 12-14 feet long, about 3" x 3" section, spruce or fir using 1 by planks, round the corners, then drop/hang on the lugsail......I'll draw it for you if'n ya wanna......My workload just got easier, first cnc prototypes arrived last night and everything fits so we can start production. I'm laying out a new controller system for the solar panels/charging regulators, and new electrical/switch panels for my new project...and gonna do a new refrigerator/freezer section...gotta do something to stay outta trouble.

[Thorne]

Reminds me of this week's "Get Fuzzy" cartoon, where Foodar (the food-sensing cat) misses a grape on the floor behind him. When asked about this, he replies that "Grape is a color...I don't bother detecting plants."
http://comics.com/get_fuzzy/2009-03-17/

I'd call it lavender but suffer from years of only seeing what are commonly called "Man colors". Our 1928 house has a shocking-colored tub and sink in "Vincennes Orchid", which is a purple/lavender-ish color popular in the late 1920's == and not before or since for obvious reasons.

[Old Sailor]

Loved that Harry Lauder moment. Didn't think anyone still remembered him.
And I like the poiple boat.
Old Sailor

[JimD]

Jim...you could make a box mast 12-14 feet long, about 3" x 3" section, spruce or fir using 1 by planks, round the corners, then drop/hang on the lugsail......I'll draw it for you if'n ya wanna......My workload just got easier, first cnc prototypes arrived last night and everything fits so we can start production. I'm laying out a new controller system for the solar panels/charging regulators, and new electrical/switch panels for my new project...and gonna do a new refrigerator/freezer section...gotta do something to stay outta trouble.

Chuck, I'd be more than happy to have your contribution. Start drawing. And while you're at it allow for a white all around 12 volt DC light on top of the mast and this might also be a good time to plan for an electrical conductor running inside the mast to a discharge plate in the water for lightning strikes. May as well be thorough. The mast tabernacle will run to the bottom kinda like this

http://dragonflycanoe.com/stephens/tabernacles.gif

and the mast will pivot in place a couple feet above the fore deck much like many others do

http://members.fortunecity.com/duckworks/2001/0115/index_files/kjames2.jpg

Except I expect mine will be three sided, open only at the front.

[nedL]

I think it has quite a traditional New England look to it. Do some research on traditional small working craft (power boats cir. 1900 - 1940) along the N.E. coast and you will see a lot of small dog houses like that on top of the trunk cabin. - Just enough room for a person to stand in. Looks good.

[Carlsboats]

Forget about the sail. Use it as a motorboat. Or maybe just a small mast aft, like a lobster boat, to cut down on the roll.
Seriously, have you calculated how much stability has been compromised, and what the righting moments might be if you put a real sailing rig in that?

[WX]

How a bout a small junkrig?

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jw/swaggie/swaggie-2007.jpg

[JimD]

Forget about the sail. Use it as a motorboat. Or maybe just a small mast aft, like a lobster boat, to cut down on the roll.
Seriously, have you calculated how much stability has been compromised, and what the righting moments might be if you put a real sailing rig in that?


No, I haven't done any stability calculations. And I agree its a major concern. But the new house is designed to bolt on and be removable so I will be able to very accurately weigh it when its finished with glass windows in place. It will be removeable so if I want to it won't be too hard to turn the boat back into a proper sailboat and because I have this idea incubating in the noggin about a 12 foot micro cruiser and I would use the pilothouse for it as well.

The trouble still will be that there aren't any stability curves for the original design that I know of. Most likely the easiest way to determine stability will be to find about three feet of water and pull it over on its side and see what happens. I like the aft mast idea and plan to do that regardless.

[JimD]

How a bout a small junkrig?



A junk rig had been the plan before I decided to put the new house on it. But for the small size its going to end up being it seemed a balanced lug without the extra battens would make more sense. The dinghy will have a junk rig to play with which has already been designed. Just a matter of finding the time to stitch it up in polytarp.

[jcuknz]

With a 16ft boat the weight of the crew is an important stability factor and it can move around. I echo the suggestion of the junk rig becuase though it may be a bit more work than the lug sail you can put as much or more sail onto her, most junkrig advice is to put more, becuase it is so easy to reef when the wind gets up and letting the main sheet go permits the sail to feather, even heading out in front of you with a tail wind. I am currently working on a 9ft dingy rigged with 55sq ft of sail with tarpalin for the sail material, sew on an old Singer sewing machine. machine didn't like the plastic tarp so I fitted a vise-grip to the wheel and hand turned it ... I escaped getting RSI :-)
http://www.geocities.com/lts1926/Image001X.gifMy rough drawing which I'm working off. The keel goes back to the transome but I took the photo with my cellphone camera which distorted things a bit.

[JimD]

Jcuknz, did you design the dinghy? Mine is a Selway Fisher pram. The rig will be an irregular fan. The Hasler junk may be more practical but I don't like the look.