Sailboat Identification - Built in 1938

[MomentSurf]

Hi all, first post here and I'm sure far from the last...

Does anyone know designer/builder info on this boat?? All I know is it was built in 1938 in Massachusetts and its 18' Long. ANY info would be greatly appreciated THANKS!!!

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/5111/49806855.jpg

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/1559/85761365.jpg

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/6855/87680621.jpg

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/153/79372010.jpg

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/5402/52643765.jpg

[StevenBauer]

I don't know the design but I like her. Have you looked through the Atkin design catalog?

http://www.atkinboatplans.com/


Steven

[Woxbox]

I don't know, but if that's your boat and your car, you came to the right forum. Also, she (the boat) looks to have massive potential both as a fun restoration project and later on the water.

[MomentSurf]

Nope, neither are mine...yet!!

I found the boat in the backyard of a recent job. The owner is moving and selling it for $500....worth it?? I'm very into sailing and have always wanted a wooden boat. I have two bigger sailboats now and I think this would be a great project.

Funny thing is, I just finished reading a book called "Sloop"...its about a man in Massachusetts who rebuilds his family's H-12 1/2. Great book and then i come across this boat...like it was meant to be.

The boat has all the parts (sails, rudder, boom, mast ect) - the only thing he is missing is the tiller. Comes with everything and a 150lb mushroom mooring/chain.

I do a lot of wood working and I own every tool I could possibly need. The boat needs a lot of work but seems there is no horrible rot. Just some refastening, caulking, maybe a new canvas deck and some paint. Am I in over my head?? Opinions, worth it?

[Brian Palmer]

An 18 ft boat for $500 is not likely to get you in over your head, especially if you already have tools and skills. Do you have space?

You may even offer to take it off their hands for free, with the assurance it is going to a good home to be restored, since they are moving and are likely to really need it outta there.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Brian

[Hwyl]

She has the look of an Eldridge McGinnis (probably mis spelled) to me.

Those concrete blocks spell "danger".

[Robert W. Long]

Looks like a great find, I think maybe the owner is being a little optimistic regarding the value though

[rbgarr]

If you are located anywhere near coastal Massachusetts call Paul Haley, the yacht surveyor in Marblehead who knows wood boats inside and out and may even be familiar with this particular design or this boat! He'd be able to give you (be paid for) an authoritative assessment of what the boat's true condition is and what it will take to repair. It's good that the boat is uncovered and looking ready for accessible inspection. Keep in mind that old mahogany planking of the era that boat looks like it may be from can be brittle and the fastenings may be worn/loose and need replacing.

Do you have more time available than the guy who wrote 'Sloop' needed for repairing his smaller 14' boat? Do you have experts that you know and can help (hands-on) like he did? It would have taken him a lot longer without them from my reading of the book.

Good luck.

[MomentSurf]

An 18 ft boat for $500 is not likely to get you in over your head, especially if you already have tools and skills. Do you have space?

You may even offer to take it off their hands for free, with the assurance it is going to a good home to be restored, since they are moving and are likely to really need it outta there.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Brian

I have the space. I have the tools, but I'm not sure I have the skills. I've never worked on a wooden boat before, I'm not exactly sure what to look for. No rot, but there are a few boards that look like they will need to be refastened. I'm not sure the correct term, but it will need to be re sealed/caulked as well. (I went in the boat at night time and there was a whole lot of light shining through the hull:-)

He says he needs the boat removed in two weeks...maybe I'll tell him if he gets no offers - I'll remove it for free and promise it a good home.

Thanks for all the ideas/opinions so quickly!! Keep 'em coming!

[MomentSurf]

I agree with the danger, plus, the ladder may be as
old as the boat?

Great find, $500? In a heart beat!

BTW, I lost a 25' Ensenada in a tornado sitting on a
contraption like that. It fell against the house. The
house didn't fare too well either.

When I first heard of it...I thought $500 was a great price...some of the posts on here made me a bit skeptical that it wasn't worth it. Thanks for giving me the motivation back!

Yea, that setup looks scary. The craddle is solid, but it needs to move, soon! Before it ends up in the trunk of his 59 MG.

[MomentSurf]

Do you have the means to move it? If not, the cost?

If you have general wood working skill, you have what
it takes to do the job. It looks like you have all the
parts, so every thing is redo able!

The light shining through, that's where the water drains
out.:D:D:D That may be why there's no rot, the water
had a place to go.

The rub rails look bad, very minor thing. It looks like
some bronze fittings, very nice! Almost non affordable
today!

Moving it is not a problem, I've moved bigger boats in scarier situations. The cradle is actually in good shape - I think the boat will stay in the cradle for the ride. I'll have it on a trailer in no time!

I like your view of the light shinning through...a very "glass is half full" prospective ;) - The boat seemed very dry and was under a tarp. He had it stored well.

Yes, the rub rails and the topside rails (The wood running from bow to stern on both sides of the deck's outside edge) Looks like it would need replacing. I didn't think that was to big of a deal - just a big expense depending on what wood I had available.

[VikingSailor]

The boat looks nice, I would think definitely worth $250-500 for one with the skills, desire, space and time to work on a boat like this........do you have the means to get the cradle off those blocks and onto a trailer / flatbed?

I wish I could help with the boat ID, the lines look sweet, it is cat rigged?

As one who "inherited" a 14 foot mahogany launch, seam and batten planked boat a few years ago, also with light shining through the hull, I can relate to your description! Be careful about "seam sealing / caulking" those planks though, until you allow the wood to swell first, under the proper moisture conditions....if you use something too stiff (like many caulking compounds), when the wood is dried out, when it goes in the water and swells, you will have a problem.......from your pics, though, I would think it does not need all that much work, other than re-finishing and painting, and perhaps some minor wood replacements here and there....replacing the tiller should not be that difficult either.

As a lover of old boats and "mysteries", I would go for this one, in a very quick heartbeat!!

Good luck on it, and keep us posted.........

[cat_duh_maran]

Figure out how much you think it'll cost to bring her up to snuff. Multiply that times two. Decide whether you want to be paid for your time. If you do then figure how much time you would have to put in and multiply that times 2.5-3 and multiply that times your rate. Add those to the $500 and that's what you'll have into her. Look around and see what comparable boats are going for in ready condition and compare your numbers. Don't forget to factor in all the satisfaction and knowledge you'll gain from the experience.
I would say that $500 is dirt cheap. Go for it.
Bruce D.

[Uncle Duke]

Just a stupid note:
The craddle is solid, but it needs to move, soon! Before it ends up in the trunk of his 59 MG.
That's not a '59... they didn't start making them until 1965. The rubber bumpers in the pictured one mark it as mid-late 70's.... not that there is anything wrong with that...:D
Boat looks nice, and if you've got room, tools, interest, time, ability to move it.... sounds like an easy choice...

[MomentSurf]

Just a stupid note:

That's not a '59... they didn't start making them until 1965. The rubber bumpers in the pictured one mark it as mid-late 70's.... not that there is anything wrong with that...:D
Boat looks nice, and if you've got room, tools, interest, time, ability to move it.... sounds like an easy choice...

According to the owner, the one in the garage is a '59 MGB (not pictured-maybe he said '69-not sure) and yes, the one in the driveway is a later model. I'm pretty sure he said 59, but I could be wrong...I am positive he is the original owner though...wow! The house was built in 1910 and was filled with old treasures. Just the old tools alone were making me twitch! I needed to get out of there fast...before I filled my pickup with more goodies. :D

[Yeadon]

A big project, but probably pretty fulfilling if completed.

Even if you don't buy it, tell the owner to get a couple stands a bit further back towards the stern. I would bet she will get hogged if left like that.

[David G]

It's easy enough to say 'figure out what it'll cost you to restore it.' Problem is, if you have no background in wooden boats, that's not an easy task. Part of the adventure will be - having committed - finding out what you've committed to (kinda like getting married).

My guess is, you'll have to decide whether you want to tackle it in spite of not knowing exactly what you're getting into.But here's something you can count on:it'll cost you far more than you expect, and take you far longer. However... having just read that book, you know that it could also take you on a journey of personal exploration that has potential, profound, positive impacts. It's not a project for a starving artist or student. You need to have some disposable income. It'll certainly cost you thousands of dollars before you're substantially complete. However, the expenses can be disbursed a bit at a time, as you go along.

The other thing to remember is that sailing a wooden boat is not free. There are ongoing maintainance and operations costs. The level of costs is partly fixed by the boat, but largely a function of your budget, your scrounging ability, and your drive toward perfection. As someone mentioned recently on another thread, owning a wooden boat is a good way to be reminded of the Japanese philosophy/aesthetic of wabi-sabi: nothing is ever perfect; nothing ever lasts; nothing is ever complete.

To me she looks like a huge opportunity for the right person.

Are you that right person? Only you can answer the question.

If you're not the right person, she looks like a road to tension, terror, and protracted impecunious misery.


"No trumpets sound when the important decisions of our life are made. Destiny is made known silently" -- Agnes de Mille

[Woxbox]

If you're not the right person, she looks like a road to tension, terror, and protracted impecunious misery.

Ahhh come on now, David. It's only an 18' boat. If it were 40 feet sure, it could become a nightmare. But not that sweet little thing. Never! :D

[David G]

Woxbox - you may be right... except that our new friend MomentSurf is a neophyte. Even a project that you could toss off in a weekend can hang over one's head like the Sword of Damocles when you don't know yet what you're doing.

[MomentSurf]

Oh crap - What did I do. Someoen make me feel better about this. :D


Dear Ralph,

Thanks for your note, I enjoyed meeting you and really appreciated your sincere interest in this wonderful boat. I accept your offer of $250. Please call me to schedule a time for you to pick up the boat. As I mentioned when you were here the mooring anchor and other accessories are also included.

My Best,

[David G]

Oh crap - What did I do. Someoen make me feel better about this. :D

M'Surf -

Sound The Trumpets

Seriously, if you want to feel better about your decision, just see my first post. You've committed. You don't sound like a fuzzy-headed fool. You'll invest blood, sweat, angst, sweat, research hours, sweat, any maybe even some tears. In the end, the boat - and you - will be transformed. I'd say congratulations are in order!

[Brian Palmer]

I still think this is a great project boat.

It could be worse: You could have bought a broken down 30 foot power boat with all kinds of "systems" and interior furniture that needs to be looked after and removed so you can work on the hull.

This is pure boat building and woodwork. It is small. It is "simple." It's like the old cars where you could still see the ground when you opened the hood. The parts are fairly small. The amount of materials and supplies needed to do any one job is still pretty small. You can go for quality.

If you get it home and find it's all rotten to heck, you could probably sell the hardware on ebay and get your money back.

You are going to learn a lot.

Have fun and welcome to the club.

Brian

[Yeadon]

Quick question ... is a boat this size worth having surveyed? In my opinion, maybe.

Odds are, I'd ask a boatwright to come take a look at it first ... just to give me a better idea of what I'm up against. At some point, I'd love to share something about that size with someone else.

Looks like a really charming little boat.

[Chip-skiff]

If you chanced on a princess in a tattered dress, would you tell her to bugger off?

Looks like you found your sleeping beauty.

Give it a go!

[Garret]

Congratulations!

You are embarking on a fabulous journey. Just remember that this will be like the difference between a vacation and an adventure. The difference is that an adventure has stories, vacations don't.

You're gonna have stories! Tears, joy, frustration, satisfaction & more.

The group here will definitely answer questions (even from dummyheads like me!) - so don't be bashful about asking.

Wishing you the very best on this new phase of your life -

Garret

Oh - if you have a significant other, be prepared for some interesting (in the Chinese sense) times....;)

[rbgarr]

It's not necessarily the size of the boat that determines whether a survey is worthwhile. In this case (IMO) it may have more to do with the age of the boat, the condition of the frames, planks, fasteners, sails, spars, etc. A good surveyor should be able to assess, or help you assess, the work and costs associated with getting the boat in good, safe condition. The temptation to do all the nice cosmetic stuff first is very strong. A local owner invested $25,000 in essentially cosmetic work in a 26' boat that needed the deck replaced all along, which he would have been told by a surveyor. [Boat yards guys are not always that knowledgable and are subject to the pressure (often from owners) to do the work you'd pay them for regardless of whether that's the most important thing to do.]
The owner can't keep the interior dry and now wants to sell. He'll never get that money back.

[Amherst Island]

Oh crap - What did I do. Someoen make me feel better about this. :D
:)Cheer up and enjoy! Expect your friends to think you've lost your marbles and then watch them drool with envy when you get this lady afloat and gleaming. Seek help where you need it, but trust yourself. We have 4 wooden boats, ranging from 8' to 37' - one of them looked worse than your new purchase. Another, like yours, was built in 1938 and positively shines on the water. Good luck.:)

[StevenBauer]

Awesome! What a fantastic project. Where are you located?


Steven

[VikingSailor]

Congratulations on your "new" old boat purchase!!

It will all work out, you will have a lot of fun and learn many new things........take a deep breath, grab one of your favorite bubbly beverages and toast the exciting new chapter in your life, about to unfold!!

When you see this beauty back in the water in the (hopefully) not too distant future, you will know that you have done the right thing!! She is a diamond in the rough, but with time and effort, she will be a sight to behold, and the envy of wooden boaters and sailors anywhere in sight..........

Yes, where are you and this boat located?

Keep us posted on your progress.........

Have you tried yet to ID this boat through various small boat museums, etc? Or local chapters of antique and classic boat groups?

[Woxbox]

Congrats! That boat is just right for a lot of reasons. Not too big, not too small, and certainly not a boring plastic knock-off.

I wouldn't pay for a survey for such a small boat. But if you want a free survey, just fill an online album full of photos and notes, put a link here, and just maybe someone will take the time to pass along an opinion or two. You may even get some practical advice. ;)

[davebrown]

you have fallen in with a delightful bunch of reprobates and miscreants, and all for the price of 2 cases of supermarket wine...it is simply wonderful.

[Garret]

you have fallen in with a delightful bunch of reprobates and miscreants...

Nobody's called me anything that nice in weeks! Thank you -

Garret

[cat_duh_maran]

Congrats! Let the fun begin!
Bruce

[MomentSurf]

Congratulations on your "new" old boat purchase!!

Yes, where are you and this boat located?

Keep us posted on your progress.........

Have you tried yet to ID this boat through various small boat museums, etc? Or local chapters of antique and classic boat groups?

Thanks to everyone for the great responses!!

The boat is located in NY, ...Eastern Long Island.

I have not yet tried to identify it. I would like to get it home first (hopefully early this week) and take some more detailed pictures.