Rant.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

Personal responsibility - and safety gear.

Recently I read a rather sad story about a man and a refill CO2 bottle for a lifejacket - the essence of which was that he blamed the vendor for:
A - The "out of code" original bottle.
B - Not knowing or possibly not stocking the required spares.

This is all too common - someone buys a piece of safety gear and then makes NO effort to learn anything about it - not how to use it - not what parts are date-coded - don't carry the relevant spares or consumables.

How many of you own a a lifejacket which:
1. Has never been inflated.?
2. Does not have a spare cylinder?
3. Is Auto and does not have a spare trigger mechanism?
4. You have not tried swimming with it on?
5. You don't know how to deflate - or avoid deflating in an emergency!
6. Does not have the harness/straps adjusted properly?

If you are - an adult, or the skipper - this is your responsibility - there is no point in blaming anyone else - YOU carry the can - you should know and understand all the safety gear you own or have access to - and have briefed or checked anyone else who may need to use it.

Seen the same sort of carp with Flares - Backup GPS units - climbing harnesses.......

Rant over - get out there and enjoy life and remember the countryside code:
Don't litter the place with corpses.



Up to a point, Lord Copper!

How many of you own a a lifejacket which:

1. Has never been inflated.?
No, I've inflated all of them

2. Does not have a spare cylinder?
One spare cylinder for each type of LJ carried

3. Is Auto and does not have a spare trigger mechanism?
One spare trigger mechanism for each type of LY carried

4. You have not tried swimming with it on?
No, I haven't. Don't see the point. You can't swim in an inflated 150 newton LJ.

5. You don't know how to deflate - or avoid deflating in an emergency!
Stick a pencil down the manual inflation tube to trip the valve; not rocket science.

6. Does not have the harness/straps adjusted properly?
More to the point, does it have crotch straps and a face mask? Otherwise, it's useless at sea.

Seen the same sort of carp with Flares - Backup GPS units - climbing harnesses.......
If you are expecting people to fire flares for practice, do tell us where - even Warsash only does dummy runs, owing to the absurd flare phobia. I do know a training centre that does it for real but its in Subic Bay in the the Philippines.

Rather than a "back up GPS", learn to navigate before going to sea.

[Brian Palmer]

Our PFDs are Type III (non-inflating). We swim in them fairly regularly (especially the kids). We took one of our new adult PFDs back to the retailer once because we didn't like the fit and bought the next higher model. Comes from a lot of white water paddling and teaching in a previous life where you wear your PFD all day when on the water, often for several days in a row. It's carried over to our sailing and quiet water paddling. Fit matters.

Brian

[Tom Hunter]

In New England there are opportunities to fire off old flares for practice from time to time. It's a shame that is not possible in old England, it teaches a thing or two and gets rid of the old flares.

[bamamick]

I have to wear a PFD almost every time I go out since these days it's either the Finn or the Megabyte, and as much as I used to hate wearing them I have gotten used to it. I don't have an inflatable life jacket, of course. None of us do, but I agree with you Mssr. Newt. Test the thing and make sure that it works. I have come close enough to drowning on more than one occasion to know that if I am wearing the damn thing that I need it to work for me.

Another piece of advice from someone who knows: make sure that the side straps are tight (which I am not sure how you do when you are wearing an inflatable). Depending on your body shape, the straps can ride up and that will force the jacket to try and lift above your head. This can actually drown you depending on the jacket. Every time I go out I pull the side straps as tight as they will go. It's important

A C-B, many if not most of the inflatable jackets sold here in the States do not have any sort of crotch strap and they certainly don't have face pieces. They are sold to people who don't want the discomfort of wearing a PFD when they are told that they must, and are basically of no more use than an infant's pacifier would be in the same instance. 'Sailing World' magazine did a review of several of these things and it looked from the photos that they basically are designed to drown people once they are inflated. Most of the photos looked like a human head was mounted on a floating raft of some sort. No sign of arms or upper torso at all. The sort of device that you describe would be much better, but I doubt that many casual sailors in America have even heard of such.

jmo Mickey Lake

[Gary E]

Personal responsibility - and safety gear.

Recently I read a rather sad story about a man and a refill CO2 bottle for a lifejacket - the essence of which was that he blamed the vendor for:
A - The "out of code" original bottle.
B - Not knowing or possibly not stocking the required spares.

This is all too common - someone buys a piece of safety gear and then makes NO effort to learn anything about it - not how to use it - not what parts are date-coded - don't carry the relevant spares or consumables.

How many of you own a a lifejacket which:
1. Has never been inflated.?
2. Does not have a spare cylinder?
3. Is Auto and does not have a spare trigger mechanism?
4. You have not tried swimming with it on?
5. You don't know how to deflate - or avoid deflating in an emergency!
6. Does not have the harness/straps adjusted properly?

If you are - an adult, or the skipper - this is your responsibility - there is no point in blaming anyone else - YOU carry the can - you should know and understand all the safety gear you own or have access to - and have briefed or checked anyone else who may need to use it.

Seen the same sort of carp with Flares - Backup GPS units - climbing harnesses.......

Rant over - get out there and enjoy life and remember the countryside code:
Don't litter the place with corpses.

Have you tested the AIR BAG in your car?

[Paul Pless]

but I doubt that many casual sailors in America have even heard of such.or bass fisherman in their glittery go fast boats..

[bamamick]

Paul, very good point.

Mickey Lake

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

Have you tested the AIR BAG in your car?

Nope - fascinating idea though - how do you test yours?

Mine are "No user serviceable parts" contraptions according to the maker.

[Gary E]

Nope - fascinating idea though - how do you test yours?

Mine are "No user serviceable parts" contraptions according to the maker.

I've never tested a auto airbag and dont plan on it.
But that's not the point, YOU want everything tested that is a ONE TIME feature... pointless testing since the probability is that it will work the next time.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

I've never tested a auto airbag and dont plan on it.
But that's not the point, YOU want everything tested that is a ONE TIME feature... pointless testing since the probability is that it will work the next time.

Nope

I want people to take responsibility for their own actions.

You cannot test a one-shot CO2 Cyl. but you can check the inflatable bladder - and that the dump valve is not stuck open.

If you've failed to check this - and it kills your spouse or kids - don't whine - you had the chance.

[Gary E]

Nope

I want people to take responsibility for their own actions.

You cannot test a one-shot CO2 Cyl. but you can check the inflatable bladder - and that the dump valve is not stuck open.

If you've failed to check this - and it kills your spouse or kids - don't whine - you had the chance.

Why dont you start at the begining...
STAY HOME when your not qualified to go out and play in the rough with the big boys.

[Rational Root]

I'm an ex-skydiver / jump master.

I check stuff, really, I do.

No-ones perfect, even when you check stuff, you can still miss things, all you can do is try to stack the odds in your favour. Stack Hard.

Some day you might do everything right and die anyway.

That happens too. But it's a whole lot less likely.

[2MeterTroll]

200% coverage of all safety gear, haul out twice a year for maint and inspection. flairs are on a schedule (i believe its 5 years). sailing with kids will do this sort of thing to ya.

hmm the sea water inflation on my life vest is disabled and will be till i die. but the cartridges and manual inflation tube is checked about once a month. I might miss a item of gear but not very often.

[paladin]

Have you tested the AIR BAG in your car?

Yup! and it worked......

[Yeadon]

You know, I've never lit a flare, or one of those orange smoke sticks ... where do you suppose would be a good place to practice this? I'm sort of dying to go do this now.

[2MeterTroll]

I ask the CG where its allowed and when. mostly 4th of july is a good time if you have over the ocean fire works or a boat parade. for the smokers i nice field somewhere again asking the CG and local fire dept is a good idea.

[Captain Intrepid]

You know, I've never lit a flare, or one of those orange smoke sticks ... where do you suppose would be a good place to practice this? I'm sort of dying to go do this now.

Simple answer, don't. It's illegal. And if you live somewhere it isn't illegal, it's stupid. They're not exactly safe, and if someone responds to your emergency signal, then you've just wasted the time of emergency personnel when they could have been needed for someone who really needs help.

[Rational Root]

...
hmm the sea water inflation on my life vest is disabled and will be till i die.
....


Here's hoping those two are independent events !!

[2MeterTroll]

they will be; I disabled the auto inflation so if i fell between boats i would be able to dive.
getting crushed is not fun i assure you.

[Rational Root]

they will be; I disabled the auto inflation so if i fell between boats i would be able to dive.
getting crushed is not fun i assure you.

I'm not just trying to wind you up, this is an honest question.

Which is the bigger risk ?

1) Going overboard, unconcious, after being hit by a boom.
2) Being squished between boats.

There is no one size fits all. In a given circumstance, AutoInflate maybe the best way to save your life, in another it may kill you.

You only get to play the odds.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

I....
There is no one size fits all. In a given circumstance, AutoInflate maybe the best way to save your life, in another it may kill you.

You only get to play the odds.

I think that is spot on - but I am quite happy that someone makes a positive call to go one way or the other on the "Auto or Manual" question - or even the "PFD or Not" question - either way he makes the call and accepts the responsibility.

You assess the risks and play it the best way you can - but could still get dead.

[2MeterTroll]

I'm not just trying to wind you up, this is an honest question.

Which is the bigger risk ?

1) Going overboard, unconcious, after being hit by a boom.
2) Being squished between boats.

There is no one size fits all. In a given circumstance, AutoInflate maybe the best way to save your life, in another it may kill you.

You only get to play the odds.

Root thats a valid question. IMO my danger point is going to be boat to boat or boat to dock. I have to use a cane; for most getting around the boat i have a hand on a rail or something stout and that makes me have to bend low. getting on or off the boat its just me and a stick.

[andrewe]

I completly agree with being responsable for one's own safety. I have had to swim after a life jacket failed (valve popped out) Nearly drowned. We have manual gas jackets now. I am not keen on auto types ( and understand the risks)
The number of sailers lost (UK) is actually very small. Most die in their dinghys to and from their moored yachts, where LJs would be essential. Far more at risk are those who go for a days fishing without any safety equipment in a small boat. Frequent bits in the press.
The idea of calling the rescue services has never occured to me, we choose to go, and accept the risks. Also I learned before VHF and other means of calling. Old fashioned, sure. Happy, yes.
A

[Tom Robb]

One way to try to minimize missed checks is a Check List - writen, laminated, placed where it gets used - the sort of thing old pilots use.
You could still die, but at least you covered the bases and improved the odds. To a large extent we make our own luck.

[Rational Root]

One way to try to minimize missed checks is a Check List - writen, laminated, placed where it gets used - the sort of thing old pilots use.
You could still die, but at least you covered the bases and improved the odds. To a large extent we make our own luck.

Ah yes....

The more I prepare, the luckier I get.