An Electric Hoist for Center Plate

[NormMessinger]

Prairie Islanders center plate weighs 435 pounds. Phyllis would rather crank it up and down than touch the tiller. Even with the advantage of the worm drive winch the 120 truns require more work the old girl more than I like to see her do. So, what to do?

I could take the crank handle off and put the 14v milwalkee drill on the shaft but that might be akin to a Mill Landin' rig. What I need is a 12 VDC motor with an off switch when full up and full down that can be operated from the cockpit. I've just began to think about this but any suggestions would be welcome.

Thanks.

[Noah]

This one was the cheapest that I found. Because you aren't in salt water it might work just fine.

http://www.toolshoplist.com/produc t_info.php/products_id/169/Electric_Winch.html (http://www.toolshoplist.com/product_info.php/products_id/169/Electric_Winch.html)

It looks like it has a remote control, and you could probably build a nice box around it.

Here are some Rule winches which might be more marine friendly.

http://marineengineparts.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/page176.html

[ 10-05-2004, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: Noah ]

[Ian McColgin]

Let's see. The board's about half supported on the pin, so you need maybe (allowing reserve) 300# or so pull to get it up? I can't remember if the winch was essentially a trailor winch with the drum and handle turning on a horizontal axis, but that's most likely and

Motors are a real pain in a small boat. You need very heavey wire to mitigate the voltage drop even on a short run. You need water proofing and spark protection to keep from going boom. You need some circuit protection to keep the motor from overheating, burning itself out or the boat down. (Both have happened.)

I'd be inclined to add a folding or detachable crank on the other side of the winch so's it could be handled with two hands while facing either fore or aft, which ever is more comfortable.

Or make the handles detachable bicycle pedals and you could do the cranking semi-recumbrant from the helm.

Or power against a sand bank, reeling in the pendant's slack as you go.

You could install a nice electric powered capstan on the foredeck for anchor handling and have some turning blocks so you can fleet the anchor pendant to that for powering the board up. A big toggle in an eye at the end of the pendant would be needed to catch in two places, one for board up and one for board down. More if you're fancy and sometimes go part down.

[mmd]

An electric motor would be a fine addition, and an automotive-type winch motor would probably be weather-tight enough, BUT (you knew this was coming, didn't you? ;) ) I would strongly suggest that you have the ability to manually override the electric system. The scenario being something like, "I've run aground on the sand bar three miles from home port and 100 yards offshore; it's getting dark, the CB is firmly holding the boat on the bar, and the battery is dead...if I can get the board up, I can go home!"

[Kev Smyth]

An inexpensive electric trailer winch- check www.harborfreight.com (http://www.harborfreight.com)

Here ya go- $40 http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=39997

[ 10-05-2004, 01:27 PM: Message edited by: Kev Smyth ]

[Dave Fleming]

Yo O&O Midwest, ever think about Aircraft stuff?

Dunno about 12VDC but it's a thought.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Winding 120 turns is boring and hard work.

Tackle?

Differential winch?

[John B]

mmd. :D
We wouldn't like Prarie Islander to be stuck like Mirabella was, now would we.( OMG, keel won't come up)

Norm,I think it was I who suggested the cordless drill to you last time you were thinking of this. What's mill landing? ;) something not good I suspect. :D
Ians anchor winch idea has got be good.
another idea would be to have a hatch in the cabin top and use the throat halyard to haul the thing up. You'd need a wire lanyard attached to the plate somehow and use the current set up unloaded as it were, as a back up . You could haul away on the halyard and Phyllis could be grinding the winch only half loaded.
You've got redundancy then too.

[NormMessinger]

I was thinking of this once before? Oh dear. So much for memory and searching before hollering.

I hadn't thought of the electric trailer winches. Might work but I'd need to consider redundancy. Can't visualize it at the moment. With that heavy plate any system needs to stay put even if someone lets go a switch, crank, line or tackle. Powering the existing winch, a worm drive which does stay put if released, seems to be the best combination of the suggestions made. Perhaps.

Mill Landing. I thought you'd never ask. On Roanoke Island on the Outer Banks of North Carolina, site of the first attempted English settlement in the New World, the Lost Colony, there are three historic villages, Manteo, Wanchese and Mill Landing in descending order of civilization, according to my assistant a local woman who grew up in Wanchese. She referred to a Mill Landin' Rig as others might a Rube Goldberg device, that is a cobbled together solution to some thing.

Thanks for giving me ideas to consider.

[Gary E]

You could, with some tinkering adapt a auto power window motor to what you now have.

"Phyllis could be grinding the winch only half loaded."

ok..but mo power and leaning on the switch is much easier even while holding a glass of wine, 1/2 loaded or not smile.gif

[John B]

:D

[Kev Smyth]

Originally posted by Gary E:
"Phyllis could be grinding the winch only half loaded."Yeah, Norm doesn't let her get completely loaded anymore- he's afraid he couldn't handle her or the gymnastics involved... Old back injury, and all that... :eek: :D

[NormMessinger]

That used to work but not any more.

(Oh Dear, I'm in trouble now. Shouldn't have said that. Shouldn't have told her about this thread.)

Thanks for all yer help guys. It's been nice knowing you.

[Venchka]

Norm,

Somewhere up above somebody said "tackle". Can't you rig a 4-part (or more if needed) tackle from the board to someplace sturdy in the hull? Even if it went over the bunk in use, you could disconnect it when you need to use the bunk. A thought-keep it simple, you know.

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[Kev Smyth]

How about a drum winch like the Lightnings, Thistles, etc. use?

Some of the better trailer winches have cable locks, brakes, and worm gearing. Look a little further. Also, snowmobile rescue winches?

[John B]

Billy Bones doesn't even bother to pull his centreplate up. I think he's gonna put little wheels on the thing.

[Buddy]

Right brain idea, but what about putting sufficient ballast in the bilge to do the righting moment work, and a much lighter centerboard in the trunk to do the lateral resistance work? Or just sail with the board down all day all the time. Very little speed lost.

[NormMessinger]

Changing ballast changes design. I have no imagination so build 'em as drawn. Anyway that seems like it would work me more than is will Phyllis if we leave things as they are. She only runs in down once and up once each time we launch unless we stick it in the mud. Guess who was at the tiller last time we did that. Sheesh, now it'll be another month, seven looking at the calendar, before I can get her to touch it again.

My thoughts at the moment: Mound a small electric motor near the winch, there is a spot for it, put the proper sized pulley on the winch handle shaft and set the handle aside for when the battery is low. I'll be looking for the proper motor with foward and reverse switch.

[Greg Stoll]

For a centerboard weighing 400 lb+, the pivot would take the most strain with the board down; when the board is just a few inches from fully retracted, there would be a lot of weight. If there is 200 lb of centerboard that is being pulled up with a 4 part tackle, that's still 50 lb of linear pull required (Linear pull being harder to achieve than vertical/downward pull). Worse yet, the linear pull is in a small boat. Electric, if feasible and designed properly, would be the way to go.

Or you could weld a grounding shoe to the board and make a quick trip to run it up on shore before every downwind leg...

Greg

[essaunders]

Lots of thoughts so far on this. It seems to me that there are two distinct problems.

1. Mounting a motor to existing crank.
Many electric motors can be obtained with internal gearboxes -- thus giving the necessary torque. What that number is, though might be harder. do you have anyway to measure the torque used now (by hand). We could, of course, calculate it based on the board geomotrey and weight (and trunk friction etc)... but I like measurements. Getting the mechanical interface may not be simple - but if you have a crank that currently works, I would suggest just trying to duplicate that interface (mechanical and torque wise) to minimize disruption of the boat. best yet would be a solution that will still let the crank 'pass through' in case of electrical failure.

2. Wiring for remote operation.
It seems to me that this would be simple - a couple of wires and a switch or three (if we get clever and put in limit switches). Maybe through in a relay at the motor/battery to keep all that current from flowing all over the place and making things messy.

Of course, there is probably a nice simple solution already worked out somewhere....

[htom]

Adapt an electric anchor windlass?

[Gary E]

Norm,

I was not kidding about the power window motor and and the switch from the door does zactly what you need. All you need to do is the mounting, adapting with sprockets etc.

"I'll be looking for the proper motor with foward and reverse switch. "

[Bill Perkins]

Yes Norm we did talk about this befor .Might you be ready to embrace the logic of lifting the board from its after end , like most folks ? You'd about cut the load on the pennant in half ; a good start to a solution .The pennant might be led along the top of the case to the existing winch , and the winch drum padded out to reduce the turns required . I remember there was excess capacity on the drum because of the short lift . Or send the pennant up through a pipe to the cabin top where an electric deck winch could handle that and the anchor , as Ian mentioned .

[ 10-07-2004, 08:31 PM: Message edited by: Bill Perkins ]

[Alan D. Hyde]

To measure the foot pounds of torque needed, why not just put a torque wrench on it?

Alan

[NormMessinger]

That'd be too easy Alan. I gotta laugh at my self. I was trying to think how I could get a spring scale accruate enough to pull on the winch handle but the torque wrench, mine reads in inch pounds, did not come to mind. Sheesh!

[Alan D. Hyde]

:D

Alan