Working with Tamarack/Larch

[MikeVT]

I'm in Vermont and the tree is Tamarack or Larch, depending who you ask. I have the opportunity to harvest a T/L tree the Power company is going to drop. They will buck it to any desired length. The local mill will saw it to my specs and my friend has a trailer that can handle it. The question is how do you handle this stuff for making planking? My prior experience is that once it dries it is rock hard. This is the stuff telephone and power poles are made of. Do I need to work it green?
Please share you experiences with this over ambitious boat builder about to start his second boat, a 14' Whitehall, constructed with indigenous woods. Thank you in advance.
Mike

[Bob Smalser]

How you buck and mill the tree is determined by how clear of knots it is and its diameter.

I'm afraid most trees beneath power lines are edge trees growing in full or half sun and aren't candidates for much except knotty paneling boards.

[peter radclyffe]

I'm in Vermont and the tree is Tamarack or Larch, depending who you ask. I have the opportunity to harvest a T/L tree the Power company is going to drop. They will buck it to any desired length. The local mill will saw it to my specs and my friend has a trailer that can handle it. The question is how do you handle this stuff for making planking? My prior experience is that once it dries it is rock hard. This is the stuff telephone and power poles are made of. Do I need to work it green?
Please share you experiences with this over ambitious boat builder about to start his second boat, a 14' Whitehall, constructed with indigenous woods. Thank you in advance.
Mike
i havent used tamarack, but larch, yes, its everywhere in europe for planking, & steaming dingy frames, it doesnt go hard so maybe thats the diff to tamarack, use it green, but if your in a hot place it will dry out, so one way round this is to plank every other strake, you can pattern or spile every other shutter, & cut these out as blanks, as you've already planked the hull once, you will be aware of all the hollows, hoods, round, twist, curve, where it needs steaming , a rehearsal then for the shutters, this method has the advantage of sweeter fairer seams for varnished hulls, because errors in seam hollows are not compounded as your not cramping any plank sideways, all these will then be drying, you can then do other work on the boat, then when your near the hottest part of the year, fit the shutter strakes, minimal caulking seams, & you should be alright , put a 1/16" arris or chamfer on both back edges of the shutters to stop them breaking the edges of the hung planks

[MikeVT]

Peter, Here is my ignorance showing.....What are Shutter strakes? Are they a second layer of planking? Thank you and Bob for the responses to my query.
Mike

[Peerie Maa]

Peter, Here is my ignorance showing.....What are Shutter strakes? Are they a second layer of planking? Thank you and Bob for the responses to my query.
Mike

Are you building a clinker or a carvel Whitehall? If clinker you will not use shutter strakes, these are the last strake of carvel plank fitted after you have planked up from the keel and down from the shear. One building technique is to line out the planking on the frames, then hang every other carvel plank, then go back and fit a shutter plank in the gaps in between the first round. The benifit is that you can hang the first lot quickly as you do not have to worry about fit, and cramping is easier. Then you have to spile both edges of the shutter strakes. This is what Peter is suggesting.

[peter radclyffe]

Peter, Here is my ignorance showing.....What are Shutter strakes? Are they a second layer of planking? Thank you and Bob for the responses to my query.
Mike
it is usual when planking a hull, toput 1,2,3 or 4 strakes from the deck down, to hold all frames in place, depending on the size of boat, divide the difference to the keel, & line out, mark on the frames your plank edges, one planking gang starts at the keel , planking both sides, to the turn of bilge, as all planks are equal port & stbd butts, & another gang starts at the turn of bilge to deck, the last planks to go in the gaps are shutters as they fill the gaps, but when your planking every other strake, every other strake is a shutter, a strake being one plank run from stem to stern, it is also good & normal practice to make most of the planks tapered, & cramp the shutter to the frames, just short of the hoods & drive with hammers & pads, or cramps, or winches on big hulls the shutter to a tight wedge fit, fore or aft

[peter radclyffe]

it is usual when planking a hull, toput 1,2,3 or 4 strakes from the deck down, to hold all frames in place, depending on the size of boat, divide the difference to the keel, & line out, mark on the frames your plank edges, one planking gang starts at the keel , planking both sides, to the turn of bilge, as all planks are equal port & stbd butts, & another gang starts at the turn of bilge to deck, the last planks to go in the gaps are shutters as they fill the gaps, but when your planking every other strake, every other strake is a shutter, a strake being one plank run from stem to stern, it is also good & normal practice to make most of the planks tapered, & cramp the shutter to the frames, just short of the hoods & drive with hammers & pads, or cramps, or winches on big hulls the shutter to a tight wedge fit, fore or aft
look at the book ,from tree to sea,

[peter radclyffe]

Are you building a clinker or a carvel Whitehall? If clinker you will not use shutter strakes, these are the last strake of carvel plank fitted after you have planked up from the keel and down from the shear. One building technique is to line out the planking on the frames, then hang every other carvel plank, then go back and fit a shutter plank in the gaps in between the first round. The benifit is that you can hang the first lot quickly as you do not have to worry about fit, and cramping is easier. Then you have to spile both edges of the shutter strakes. This is what Peter is suggesting.
aye

[ShagRock]

Posted by Bob Smalser:
I'm afraid most trees beneath power lines are edge trees growing in full or half sun and aren't candidates for much except knotty paneling boards.

Bob makes a good point. Tamarak (Larch)..misnomer Juniper in my neck of the woods..tend to grow with many limbs in open areas; but can have fewer limbs if competing against other trees for growth.

I've cut Tamarack for boat ribs. Typically, only the lower, limb free area of the tree is used. It bends great if soaked in hot water in a steel drum heated over an open fire. After the ribs are bent in, it's best to pre-drill Tamarack to prevent splitting. The ribs were used in a carvel strip-planked hull for ocean going skiff. I've never seen Tamarack used for planking or other structural parts of a boat; but others here may have.

The method mentioned by Peter is another way to strip plank a carvel, although the method I'm most familar with uses temporary 'battens' to hold the frames in place and the battens are gradually removed as the planking proceeds along the hull.

[peter radclyffe]

Bob makes a good point. Tamarak (Larch)..misnomer Juniper in my neck of the woods..tend to grow with many limbs in open areas; but can have fewer limbs if competing against other trees for growth.

I've cut Tamarack for boat ribs. Typically, only the lower, limb free area of the tree is used. It bends great if soaked in hot water in a steel drum heated over an open fire. After the ribs are bent in, it's best to pre-drill Tamarack to prevent splitting. The ribs were used in a carvel strip-planked hull for ocean going skiff. I've never seen Tamarack used for planking or other structural parts of a boat; but others here may have.

The method mentioned by Peter is another way to strip plank a carvel, although the method I'm most familar with uses temporary 'battens' to hold the frames in place and the battens are gradually removed as the planking proceeds along the hull.
the method i talk about is not for strip planking, & can be used with sawn or steamed frames, the strip planking i have used is parallel, concave & convex top & bottom, the last method you talk of is usually only to keep the steamed frames in place as you plank, the trad planking method

[S B]

Larch is heavy and shrinks quite a bit. Have the log sawn green and stack the timber. Warps like crazy in the open and has a tendancy to split if dried to fast. If the log has a rotten center, it is fire wood, fungal infection. It only becomes hard and brittle if dried too much. A clear stick is resistant to rot.

[ShagRock]

Posted by Nick:
One building technique is to line out the planking on the frames, then hang every other carvel plank, then go back and fit a shutter plank in the gaps in between the first round. The benifit is that you can hang the first lot quickly as you do not have to worry about fit, and cramping is easier. Then you have to spile both edges of the shutter strakes. This is what Peter is suggesting.Thanks for clarifying that. Does this method make the process any faster or less complicated?

Peter.. I'm not certain there is a clear definition between a 'plank' and a 'strip', but there may be. Sorry if I misunderstood, but could you clarify why you say your shutter method would not be suitable for a stripper built boat but okay on a carvel built one?

[peter radclyffe]

Thanks for clarifying that. Does this method make the process any faster or less complicated?

Peter.. I'm not certain there is a clear definition between a 'plank' and a 'strip', but there may be. Sorry if I misunderstood, but could you clarify why you say your shutter method would not be suitable for a stripper built boat but okay on a carvel built one? the only strip i've used is convex, so you cant enter a plank between 2 planks , if your strip plankjs are rectangular, yeah, sure you can use it, but isnt your strip planking already dry, this method is for green planks, otherwise its quicker to plank up in trad fashion, like bricks

[MikeVT]

AS usual, my knowledge has been increased by this forum. The boat I am building, the Whitehall, will be lapstrake.
As far as the Tamarack tree in question, I will be harvesting the root section for future knees and stems. Thanks to all.