Selway Fisher Kane and Abel

[JimD]

Perhaps my idea for a solo pocket cruiser is just too selfish and lonely a thing for a married man to do. Perhaps I should go for a salty, curvy, open or half decked dayboat to take the relatives out in would be a better idea. But it has to be stable, firm bilged, preferably ballasted. I like these from SF. I would carry 300# fixed ballast under the boat as opposed to water ballast inside, but other wise I think this is a lovely boat. Built in floatation would make it unsinkable. http://www.selway-fisher.com/OtherDB.htm#KANE 16' x 6'6" :

http://www.selway-fisher.com/Abled1.gif

http://www.selway-fisher.com/Sbpp1.jpg

http://www.selway-fisher.com/Sbpp2.jpg

http://www.selway-fisher.com/Sbpp3.jpg

Both these boats use a hull form which is similar to the original boats with their hard bilges making them very stable, sweet ‘wineglass’ transoms, flattish sheer line and strong plumb stem. Both boats carry 300 lbs of water ballast and have a lot of internal space for extended family dayboat cruising. The gaff yawl rig will balance under jib and mizzen alone allowing them to romp along in heavy weather and both boats have an outboard well. Kane has 7 planks per side and Able 8 planks.

[shamus]

Would you like a set of study plans Jim?
I don't have any further use for my set.

[James McMullen]

I like 'em, Jim! A pretty glued lapstrake open boat is not only fun to use, but also very rewarding to build. Welsford's Pathfinder would be another in this vein.

It would be interesting to compare these boats with Oughtred's Penny Fee (http://www.classicmarine.co.uk/details.asp?Name=Penny+Fee) which is of a similar sort of size, though a much more suitable rowboat if you could get away from needing an outboard.

[JimD]

I like 'em, Jim! A pretty glued lapstrake open boat is not only fun to use, but also very rewarding to build. Welsford's Pathfinder would be another in this vein.

It would be interesting to compare these boats with Oughtred's Penny Fee (http://www.classicmarine.co.uk/details.asp?Name=Penny+Fee) which is of a similar sort of size, though a much more suitable rowboat if you could get away from needing an outboard.

I see the resemblance but Penny Fee is quite a bit smaller and lighter over all, I think. It has over a foot less beam and carries a lot less sail. I could see why it would make a nimble rowboat. I like the heavier, wider stance of Kane and Abel and I think overall it captures the English workboat character I've always admired. I think in terms of performance and general program Welsford's designs are a better comparision. Both Pathfinder or Navigator seem to have that same robust character I'm after.

[JimD]

Would you like a set of study plans Jim?
I don't have any further use for my set.

Shamus, very kind of you to offer. What made you decide not to build?

[JimD]

Btw, if anyone has any ideas for close relatives to these boats you could point me too I'd appreciate your efforts. I've only ever built slab sided plywood single chines and feel I'm missiing out. Looking for plylap or multichine, stable, robust flavour, sexy transoms, 14 - 17 feet or so. Not much longer or shorter. No interest in rowing. It would carry a small outboard, preferably in a well but possible on the transom. Room for four adults daysailing or a couple camp cruising BC's Gulf Islands and maybe a little adventurous travel up the inside passage and down to Washington state.

[outofthenorm]

I've always liked these boats. Burdonsome and relatively stiff, they could carry kids, dogs, beer and beer-drinking friends with ease. They're kinda heavy though, so the trailer would need a good winch. Not likely to be a lively performer, unless it's blowing pretty good, which doesn't fit well with the kids, dogs and beer. So if slow progress is OK, they would fit the bill. I like the extra strake on the dark hull. The rudder is kinda funky-looking as drawn, but that's easy to re-do.

- Norm

[JimD]

I've always liked these boats. Burdonsome and relatively stiff,... They're kinda heavy though, ... Not likely to be a lively performer, unless it's blowing pretty good, ... So if slow progress is OK, they would fit the bill. I like the extra strake on the dark hull.
- Norm

This is exactly the type of boat I am after.

[shamus]

Jim I thought the boats were nice, if I recall, I think the right big boat came along and I had my hands full. Send me a PM with your address and I'll dig them out. I won't be where the plans are until Wednesday evening, probably.

[T. Traddles]

How about Bolger's "Lynx". See the boat here:

http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/view/F205041

[JimD]

How about Bolger's "Lynx". See the boat here:

http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/view/F205041

Pretty boat but I'm not interested in anything with a cabin, save possibly a very small cuddy for dry secure storage.

[Hwyl]

The Salcombe Yawl is a tremendously pretty and aggressively raced local class. The boats above are attempts to emulate this boat. The attempts fail in my opinion, but my opinion is skewed by the fact that I love the town of Salcombe and these boats.

http://www.syoa.co.uk/

http://www.theboatyardatbeer.com/images/RR5.jpg

http://www.theboatyardatbeer.com/images/RR6.jpg

[PeterSibley]

http://www.selway-fisher.com/Abled1.gif


Very nice Jim !:)

[TonyH]

Jim, in this vein I've always liked David Payne's "snapper boat" design (http://www.payneyachts.com/trailer_sailers.htm), based on a local fishing boat type. I've seen one that was clinker built.

http://www.payneyachts.com/images/snapper_boat_perpsective.gif

http://www.payneyachts.com/images/snapper_boat_2.gif

http://www.payneyachts.com/images/Snapper_Boat_1_001.jpg

[Scott Sawtelle]

There is an article in an old issue of Water Craft about stability testing one of these boats. I don't know if the author has a Kane or an Able but I suppose it doesn't matter. The testing wasn't really scientific but he found the boat reassuringly stable. With the boyancy tanks closed up (they leaked a little) and the boat flooded to the top of the seats they could hardly budge her.

"Our conclusions? Perigrine will not capsize easily. If she did - and I believe only a freak wave in the wrong circumstances could cause it - she could not be righted by the crew but would still be floating. If she was holed or swamped, we believe we would have enough time to keep water levels under control while we made temporary repairs. (They tried to swamp her by opening the drain plugs and found the water coming in much slower than expected.)

As Norm said, slow and steady.

[JimD]

The Salcombe Yawl is a tremendously pretty and aggressively raced local class. The boats above are attempts to emulate this boat. The attempts fail in my opinion, but my opinion is skewed by the fact that I love the town of Salcombe and these boats.http://www.syoa.co.uk/


Nice boat but it looks quite different to me. Maybe its the sail plan that makes it seem that way. If the SF design is a copy of sorts I have to say I like the copy better than the original as it looks more workboatish and less yachty club racerish if you know what I mean.

[JimD]

"Our conclusions? Perigrine will not capsize easily. If she did - and I believe only a freak wave in the wrong circumstances could cause it - she could not be righted by the crew but would still be floating. If she was holed or swamped, we believe we would have enough time to keep water levels under control while we made temporary repairs. (They tried to swamp her by opening the drain plugs and found the water coming in much slower than expected.)

As Norm said, slow and steady.

That's mostly good news. I suppose there might be some way to find enough leverage for the crew to right it but realisically if you're in conditions bad enough to capsize likely all you could do is hang on to the overturned hull for dear life.

[JimD]

Jim, in this vein I've always liked David Payne's "snapper boat" design (http://www.payneyachts.com/trailer_sailers.htm), based on a local fishing boat type. I've seen one that was clinker built.



Tony, I'd forgotten about this Payne design. Good one. I like the low aspect rig, too. Still like Kane and Abel better, tho.:)

[JimD]

John Welsford's Pilgrim looks like my sort of open boat, too, designed for maximum seaworthiness. And those among us who don't think there is a place for ballast on small open craft will be happy to know Pilgrim is only designed to carry #670 of the stuff ;). No new updates on John's website, though http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/pilgrim/updates.htm

http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/pilgrim/images/10-08-19-s.gif (http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/pilgrim/images/10-08-19.gif)

[JimD]

Shamus, the plans you sent me arrived. Some nice literature along with them. Thanks very much, my friend.:)

[shamus]

That's great Jim. Now whether or not you decide to build one, I hope you get as much fun out of thinking about it as I did.
As it happened the right 'big boat' came along for me before I had a chance to do much more about it.

[aldebaran]

Jim

You can find a lot of nice boats like the Kane and Abel here:
http://vivierboats.com/

The 15 feet gaff sloop Ebihen 15 being one of my favorites in your style of boat:
http://vivierboats.com/albumsen/ebihen/gaff%20sloop%20clinker/slides/DSC00192.html

[lvergara]

I second the motion...

http://vivierboats.com/albumsen/ebihen/gaff%20sloop%20clinker/slides/10062009(001).html (http://vivierboats.com/albumsen/ebihen/gaff%20sloop%20clinker/slides/10062009%28001%29.html)

[aldebaran]

Yes, Vivier has an elegant line. Just like Oughtred. Kane and Able are a bit plumb in my eyes

[isla]

Jim, did you ever follow through on these designs? I am also looking for input on them and I was hoping somebody on the forum had started a build.