Deck Caulk Removing Tool?

[Larry Exum]

As work on my Chris Craft MY continues, I find myself thinking in advance to the next major project chapter- That of removing existing caulking and the material string thingies in the grooves. I barely remember an article from a previous magazine about a tool that could be purchased or made which would remove the existing Caulking. Who would offer it?

I have also seen comments as to using a router or electric saw to clean out the grooves, but I live in fear that the saw will take off on its own and make my deck look like the Atlanta Airport runway system.

What advice can you wisened woodies provide for me to better prepare myself for the job at hand. I much prefer the power method of removal, as early arthritis or bursitis make use of arm power very limited, and unreasonable on a 45 foot deck.

:confused:

[Bob Cleek]

You can take an old file and heat and bend the tang into a hook, sharpen the edges, wrap tape around the file part and use it to reef out the seams. That kind of tool works for heavy work, but it is tough on deck seams because it often gouges up the edges of the seam.

For "surgical" removal jobs, a Dremel tool with a CARBIDE router bit does a good job. If the decking is teak, particularly, the HSS bits will not last more than a couple of feet of seam before dulling.

Now, I haven't tried it yet, but the Rolls Royce of seam reefing tools is probably the Fein Multimaster with their seam reefing blade attached. The Multimaster with a sanding pad, a saw blade and a scraper blade, will set you back about $179... and worth it. I think the seam reefing blades are around $35 and come in different widths for various seam widths. This is the only tool I know specifically designed to do the job. For some reason, the Fein blade and sanding attachments are, IMHO, scandalously overpriced. I don't know why. We're talking about a bent piece of flat stock sheet steel is all. I've taken to making my own for special applications. I don't know why some manufacturer hasn't come up with a line of fun stuff to hang on the end of the Multimaster for a tenth what Fein wants for theirs. Still, while it isn't an indispensable tool, the Fein Multimaster is sure at the top of the "luxury" tool list when you have some mad money.

[Dave Fleming]

Ah hates reefing out deck seams! 'Cleekster' I gotta see that there 'fine' tool you been blabbering about. Wheresome I be alookin' at it, if ya please? :D

[RGM]

There is alot of info out there on this particular topic/task. Try a search of this forum first, if not satisfied consult your wooden boat repair library. If you don't have a wood boat "library" then start acquiring one. Basically, remove the seam compound (I'm figuring it's rubber) first by freeing it up from the decking with a razor knife and peel it out. Extract the "stringy thingies", if they remain, with a bent (about 90 degree) file tang or screw driver which has been ground to fit the calking seams (providing it's a vee groove) in your decking. The ground and bent file or screw driver (needs a sharp burr on it) can also be used to remove residual seam compound from the edges of your decking and generally scrape things clean in advance of the new installation. A word of caution, some deck seams are "fake", they are shallow and flat bottomed. The reason for this is that instead of individual narrow strakes of decking some people/builders will install a broader piece of decking that's been notched with a table saw length wise to resemble narrow strakes of decking. So, take it easy with the seam compound and calking removal until you know exactly what you've got. Sometimes the grain of the wood will tell you if it's narrow or broad strakes. Using power tools to accomplish this job is very risky, and very rarily yields good results unless you're a pro and have the right router bits or saw blades and base plate jigs/guide pins. Again, these should be ground to the shape of your seams. Been there, done that. You're not talking about that many linear feet. Regarding the "material string thingies" that you mention. These are either "bond breakers" that lay in the bottom of flat deck seams or it's cotton calking that is driven to the bottom of a vee shaped seam with specialized tools (preferably). Figure out which scenario you're dealing with and report back. Good luck.

[RGM]

Cleek and Dave made their entries while I was still typing my long winded response. Didn't mean to sound like I was stealing or restating their ideas. I like Bobs idea of giving the Fein Multimaster a try, I've heard that it can work very well for the purpose from some, so-so from others. How about going out and buying one Larry, try it out and then provide us with your "product review"? Or possibly renting one and trying it out.

[Dave Fleming]

RGM. not to worry. Your response had ever so much more meat than my flippant remarks. I just have some nasty memories of reefing out about a zillion miles of seams filled with Jefferys Marine Glue with rather primitive tools aka bent sharpened files.
:mad:

[Jamie Hascall]

I will defend the circular saw method with certain caveats. The first being that you must make absolutely sure what the structure you're reefing out is like. The second being that this method is most suited to straight laid decks. I used a Porter Cable 4 1/2" worm drive trim saw with two narrow kerf blades set to the width of seam I desired, to strip out the seams on my teak decks. I wouldn't recommend you look too close at the whole deck but the overall results were very good. It's much easier to control a small saw than a router and in the end I had all fresh wood to lay the new compound into.

My second choice would be the Fein which I haven't used, but after handling one during a demo I would bet it lives up to it's billing.

Good luck,
Jamie

[Nicholas Carey]

As Jamie pointed out the Fein detail sander has a deck caulk reefing attachment. And like Jamie I've never used it. But....

I've heard from a number of people that it rocks. I was at a local tool porn show about a year or two ago, ogling the Fein tools. Another ogler, noticing me playing with the detail sander, offered up the unbidden opinion that I should buy one now if not sooner, as his Fein sander paid for itself the first day he had it, reefing out deck seams.

[nedL]

You may already be aware of it, but if your teak deck is standard Chris Craft construction, you may not have individual planks. The planking may very well be three'planks'wide (as I remember)with shallow saw curfs that are 'caulked'to give the appearance of individual narrow planks. You should be able to check this out at any hatch opening, or find an area of obvious grain & see if it runs from one 'plank' to another. You also will have no cotton in the seams. The seams will be basically square in cross section with only the black seam compound in them. - If you do have individual planks please let me know.

[Bob Cleek]

Dave, everybody has the Fein Multimaster in their catalog. It's the top of the line detail sander. Fein makes a bunch of attachments for it. The thing is basically a surgeon's cast saw, it vibrates like crazy, but is very well made and practically no vibration transfers back through the casing into your arm. The saw attachment will cut through anything hard, but will not cut your skin if you put your hand on it... like a cast saw. The sanding advantages are obvious. They make all sorts of shaped pads and saws and so on that go on the end of it and vibrate. (Well, almost all sorts of things... mmmm.... maybe there's a market niche there that Fein hasn't thought of...) Anyway, the attachments are pictured in the better catalogs and the better tool stores have them. Highland Hardware's catalog has a photo of the seam reefer in it, but they call it a "teak deck tool" or some such. It looks like nothing more than a hooked blade the width of the seam. I haven't handled one yet.

By the way, Dave... about old time seam compound... Jeffrey's and so on. This guy in a recent WB says he discovered that plain old roofing tar (3M 300, I think it's called), the stuff you use on tar and gravel roofs, is the same thing and works great. Does it? Moreover, and this is what had me thinking... when you pay a deck with the old heated tars, and then it gets old and cracked and so on, would it be possible to take a heat gun to the stuff and just re-melt it so it sealed up the leaks without having to reef it all and do the job over again? Just wondering...

[Dave Fleming]

Bob, thanks for the heads up about that 'wonder tool'.
Re: re-heating Jefferys or similar, truthfully I dunno if I would chance it.
I know we used or reused whatever was in the pot when it came to the next job but that was in a big Cast Iron pot over a gas burner, wanna say Acetylene but could have just been LP gas. The heat from that burner was very HOT and it was tricky to not get the Jefferys too hot because there was a change in the chemistry if over heated. Would become very brittle when cooled. The tin seam feeders aka pointy cans used to fill the seams with the stuff were just left in the pot till the next time and as the pot got warm they could be lifted out of the old glue with no seeming harm to the feeder or glue.
You know when that stuff is too hot..it smokes and stinks to high heaven.
I did see that remark about a roofing product being similar....was it in Brooks' column or that series on deck caulking? Gosh now have to find the issues in question, where ever they may be in this bears cave. :D

[Amber1]

I am reefing my teak deck seams using a power metal grinder. You can buy metal grinding disks that are 1/8", 3/16", and 1/4" thick. My seams are 3/16". The grinder cleans the old stuff out and sands the bottom and sides of the groove at the same time. Most important, it does not cut fast like a power saw and less likely to run away on you. Since my deck is worn in spots, I can easily deepen the grooves leaving a nice square groove.

[Larry Exum]

Thanks for the many posts. After reading them all, I believe that the article I had found before was the "Bent File Tang". That method seemed too much like real work, so I appreciate the other ideas. I like the idea about the cutoff wheels, and wonder how you keep the unit in line so as not to have any gouges in the channel.

If I was planning to caulk with black, then it would not be as important, however I am noodling the idea of using a white seam compound, allowing it to totally cure then go back with a belt sander and smooth it level with the deck.

Any thoughts as to white versus black seams?

Also as to the power tool methods, where can I find the metal studs to attach to power saw or router so as to cut in a perfectly straight line without wantering off?

[Larry Exum]

I just came across another tool which looks like it would make this chore much easier. It is called Grout Grabber, and it is simply a Carbide blade semi rounded which fits into any standard Reciprocating saw. You simply fit the blade down into the groove and guide it along. With it already in the groove, you do not have to worry about slipping out as with a circular saw.

[Bayboat]

I have used the Fein tool quite a bit, for removing seam compound including the "rubber" stuff (e.g., Sikaflex or 3M products) from both deck and hull seams. It's a little slow, but requires considerably less effort than reefing hooks or bent files. It works best on the seam compound, but not very well on cotton or oakum. A reefing hook is best for the latter. There is confusion about what is "caulking." It is the cotton and/or oakum put in a seam. Seam compound is not caulking--it is the stuff you put in the seam over the caulking.

[gary porter]

Originally posted by Bayboat:
[ Seam compound is not caulking--it is the stuff you put in the seam over the caulking.[/QB]Geezzz, you old guys are always confusing. I was taught that the cotton and or oakum was calking or corking and that caulking was goo in a tube. :rolleyes: I'm sure most know whats what if we could just get these damn words right. I did see that the Fein tool was a bit high priced but I think I'll go for it anyway as I have the multimaster already. smile.gif

[oceangoddess]

Wait until your teenager has done something truly awful - and make this his community service...

[Bayboat]

Hi Gary Porter: Calking, corking, caulking are all the same thing--cotton and/or oakum and the act of putting it in seams with various calking/corking/caulking irons--just with different spelling and pronunciation depending on where you are or with whom you are talking. Putty, tar, seam glue, Sikaflex, 3M 5200 and others, are all seam compounds, not calking, corking or caulking. There is a lot of misuse of these terms, especially by manufacturers of seam compounds who want to claim that they can be substituted for caulking/corking/calking. Old-timers like to preserve their status as old-timers by saying "corking" because they think that most old-timers who preceded them said it that way.

[Bayboat]

Hi Oceangoddess: Back in my not much younger days I had an all-female cruising crew for a couple of years. There were three of them, and they called themselves the "sea goddesses" and called me "Poseidon" (what else?). Their uniform of the day (when it was warm) was shorts and two small scallop shells tied with a piece of string. Just one guess as to where the scallop shells were worn. Cleek et al.: No wisecracks, please; they were a charming bunch and great sailors.

[Dave Fleming]

I seem to notice more CAULKERS in the Pac No West using 'corking' vs. San Francisco area folks using'caulk'. I have this theory, totally unfounded, that the Pac. No. West folks use is a carry over from the word used to describe the hardened steel inserts in the soles of loggers boots aka caulks, pronounced 'corks'. I have even seen that in signs in logging country:" Please No Corked Boots On These Premises".

I agree with Bayboat, the material in the seams is the caulking/corking ie: Cotton or Oakum and the material used to cover the Cotton or Oakum is called variously seam filler, seam compound, seam putty, deck seam compound, deck glue, tar, pitch....
Older work boats, as has been noted in other threads to this Forum, can have some form of Cement used as seam filler below the waterline. Usually mixed with a bit of bottom paint and troweled on. Then almost immediately painted over with more bottom paint to prevent premature drying and cracking.
San Francisco area yards seemed at least at my time, to favour White Cement for the mix, whereas Pac No West yards used Portland Cement.
Now don't ask me what White Cement is or where it comes from that was just too long ago now for me to have any recollection. I just remember the sacks of it were kept in a very dry location. At Anderson and Christofani, it was kept alongside the firebox for the boiler that supplied steam to the... steam box and the winch on the marine railway.

[Ian G Wright]

Caulking/Corking .
In English the words "caulking/corking" are pronounced exactly the same,,,,, how do others do it?
Oh and while I'm at it,,,Buoy is pronounced "boy", not, please not, "Boo-ee".
It's as well you should know now,,,, wrong is wrong and I'm sure you are all keen to learn The Right Way.
,,,,,and while I'm in that sort of mood :) did you notice that WB sell a bronze sinker for a lead line. Does that make it a bronze line? Should a lead not be made of lead?
Inquiring minds want to know.
IanW.

[Donn]

cork (kôrk)
caulk (kôk)
buoy (boo'e)
boy (boi)

Perhaps you meant to say "in England " rather than "in English"

Regarding lead lines...are Rock Cornish Game Hens made of rock?

[ 04-06-2002, 05:05 PM: Message edited by: donnwest ]

[oceangoddess]

Thank you Ian - OF COURSE its pronounced "boy".... What are they thinking of.

After all, we were here first....

And Don... Its got nothing to do with "English" which appears to be a language which has been borrowed by all sorts of odd people from the proper English, and thoroughly trashed.

When words such as "surferdude" start turning up in an American "English" dictionary, you know something has gone horribly haywire...

[oceangoddess]

Just to clarify - even though I currently live in Southern California, I was born in England, and still talk proper, as it were....

[JimD]

my dear miss p, you can 'talk properly', or you can 'talk proper english', but you can't 'talk proper', because that is improper grammar smile.gif

PS - Sorry, miss p, i wuz just in the mood to be silly - correct, mind you...

[oceangoddess]

Duh....

if you can speak proper english like what I can you'll be right up there with the toffs, yer know...

[JimD]

miss p, i pray for the day i can talk like what yer can, and God bless yer, too

[Nick Kent]

I re caulked the deck on an international this winter. What we did was take my Dewalt skill saw and put two 40 tooth blades on it. Then we made a jig for the saw. It was a piece of ply bolted onto the bottom of the saw table with a 4" strip of wood glued into the ply that was directly behind the blade. With this, we were able to start a cut in the deck, and the strip of wood would guide the back of the saw and you had to guide the front of the saw along one edge of the deck boards. It was a sprung deck (curved right?) and held a fare line well. The two blades cut the old caulk away from both sides of the deck, and took out most of the old cotton, and left the seem very clean. The teak caulking used to refill the seams did not require cotton. This worked fairly well, although you have to have a very steady hand to follow the deck. Definitely quicker than a reefing tool. Still a horrible project. Nick

[Dave Fleming]

NIck, ya mean ya just got some goo in those wide seams?
Surely there is something underneath the goo, no?

Old minds wish to know, ya folla?
:confused:

[Bayboat]

Same question as Dave's. There's no such thing as "teak caulking" if it refers to some goo out of a tube. Maybe teak-colored seam compound? Squirting in only seam compound is not so good, despite the claims of the purveyors. Caulking (cotton and/or oakum laid in firmly with a caulking iron) is necessary to stiffen up the deck, just like it stiffens up hull planking.
:confused:

[Ian G Wright]

Originally posted by donnwest:
cork (kôrk)
caulk (kôk)
buoy (boo'e)
boy (boi)

Perhaps you meant to say "in England " rather than "in English"

Dear Don,
No idea where your reference comes from, not that it matters, it's wrong, trust me. I know about these things, I have a degree in "Things America gets Wrong" and will soon finish another in " American Errors of the 20th Century" publication was held up by a paper shortage caused by the popularity of these courses.
You may like to look up my paper on "Rock Salmon, not Rock, not Salmon but a great meal with chips." for help with your other question.

IanW.

[Nick Kent]

I was apprenticing (sp?) with a guy in Bar Harbor, and the stuff said on the tube that it was ok to use without cotton. The manufacturer of the caulking also sell teak decks or something along those lines. I'll see if I can find the name of the stuff. But, yeah, on some seams I reefed them out with a reefing tool and then got what remained of the cotton with caulking irons. I read after I'd finished in an old issue of W.B. about the cotton actually providing structural strength to the deck, ie keeping it tight. Anyway, I cleaned all the seams with a rag and acetone, and then on the seams that were sawed I put down a fine line tape on the bottom of the seam. The caulking manufacturer recommended a special kind of tape, but the fine line was all we had. Putting the tape down in the bottom of the seam is supposed to prevent the caulking from sticking to the bottom of the seam, and only enables it to stick to the sides of the seam. So, if it shrinks or moves it won't stick to the bottom and pull away from the sides, thus creating a leak. Anyway, it looked pretty good when I finished, but we won't know until the boat goes in the water and gets some weather. The teak is also unfinished. I don't know if that is relevant, but I thought it was worth mentioning. Any thoughts on this process? Thanks, Nick.

[Bayboat]

Hi Nick Kent: My reaction to putting seam compound in deck seams without caulking (cotton and/or oakum)is, don't believe everything you read on the label.
I tried that method once, at the insistance of an owner. It was old work, but we cleaned the sides of the seams using a trim saw with carbide blade, primed them, laid the tape in the bottom, and squirted in the goo. I told the owner it was not a good idea, so he had no recourse the next year when his deck leaked. The goo just didn't remain stuck uniformly to the sides of the seams. Also, I suspect the planking did a bit of moving because it had not been stiffened by new caulking. We reefed out the goo, laid in new cotton over the old, and filled with good old oil-based Interlux seam compound. Happy customer. The non-caulking method might work better on new work, but there is still the problem of stiffening the planking. The method just doesn't do that.
I'm a bit confused as to how you reefed out the old cotton. A caulking iron is used to pound in the caulking, not take it out. Perhaps what you used is a "reefing iron," which has an acute angle at the business end and a mushroomed other end which you hit with a mallet. The other tool is a "reefing hook" which you apparently used for part of the job.

[Nick Kent]

"some seams I reefed them out with a reefing tool and then got what remained of the cotton with caulking irons."

Sorry, my wording was poorly chosen. I used a reefing tool (hook) to remove the cotton from the unsawn seams. I hammered the cotton that the reefing tool did not remove back tight with caulking irons. I was purely doing this job for experience and to learn about boat work. I think the owner was not wanting to put a lot of money into the boat, which is why we ended up doing it the way it was done. This summer will be the test for sure. It would make sense to use the method that is time tested, but I think it was a matter of money and time mostly. I guess we'll just have to wait until the water hits the deck.

[oceangoddess]

Hey Ian

I remember Rock Salmon being a euphemism used for Friday lunch after the latter part of the morning was spent dissecting dogfish pickled in formaldehyde....

Needless to say, those of us in that class were usually absent for this repast...

What was that navy grace? "Oh Lord, for this piece of cod which passeth all understanding may you give us cast iron stomachs"

And for myself, after that I've never felt the urge to have it with chips.

Now a nice piece of BC ling cod, freshly caught, popped in the deep fryer, with chips made from tatties from the garden and some leeks and sprouts (in January no less) - that I COULD go for.

What DO we do about the 'murican propensity for disassembling our language?

[Ian G Wright]

They (we) can't call Rock Salmon Rock Salmon any more. The piece I had last week was described as "Rock Huss", but we all know it's dog fish, and none the worse for it. One of my favourite bits of fish next to Skate Wings.
As for as our language being butchered ,,,,, no idea. I fear it may be a lost cause, but I'm not going to give up yet. Not that being American is wrong in itself you understand but like training a puppy to poop in place you have to be firm.
Wrong is Wrong.

IanW.

[oceangoddess]

Totally off the topic - but having lived in British Columbia fishing communities I've developed a severe addiction for halibut cheeks, only to find down here in So. Cal. they THROW THEM OUT!!! I actually scored cheeks from a couple of 40lb halibut last week - the guy thought I was nuts, but I wasn't going to disallusion him.

[fisherman]

Last weekend I removed about 300 ft of caulking with my Fein. Traditional caulking coated with Sikaflex. Fein rules, the job took only six hours!

[Jim Surdyke]

Boatlife makes an electric hot knife that is made for removing seam compounds from teak decks. It comes with two different sized U-shaped tips, 1/8th and 1/4" wide that heat up and slice through the compound. They advertise that it cuts through deck compound like warm cheese.

Unit sells for about $115.00 and can be purchased from Defender Industries.

A local who does nothing but work on teak decks just got one and says that it has cut the time to remove old seam compound by 90% and has totally eliminated gouging the sides of the groove.

[ 04-23-2002, 04:38 PM: Message edited by: Jim Surdyke ]

[Ian McColgin]

I have the Fein and love it, but it's not the easiest way to get goop out of a seam. It does slice the edges nicely which may facilitate lifting out with the bent file tang - The one I made and use much has been affectionatly called "the Ian" around this harbor. Back to the Fein, the RO mechanism makes it want to cut hard surfaces and not do much with soft material if a sanding or sawing attachment is on. The sharp putty knife attachment, however, will neatly slice the goop from the wood.

Ploughing with a circular saw on a jig actually is about the fastest for those with nerve. You need to make a trailing track under the foot to follow in the freshly ploughed goove and you still need a good sight line and very steady hand, but it works. On one long large job I modified a mechanic's creeper so I could lie close along the work, but that's another winkle.

G'luck