new teak

[will tracey]

I just purchased a pair of new teak grabrails for the cabintop of our boat. I'd like them to look bright but don't want to varnish them. Any suggestions as to a good oil I could use and how often I should oil them?

Thanks in advance,

[Lew Barrett]

Epifanes clear spar varnish :D

Easier in the long run than oiling.

[will tracey]

Thanks Lew. Can you elaborate on "easier in the long run"? I use Epifanes clear on everything else and thought for these it would be better to oil them. They have a nice oil feel right now as they're brand new.

[Lew Barrett]

Will, oil isn't maintenance free and will eventually blacken with exposure as it has
no UV protection. If these were teal decks, we'd all probably say leave it bare and let it silver. But with exposed wood that wants a finish, my experience has been that a varnish course is no more difficult to keep in the long run than oil, which requires periodic renewal on a more regular basis than varnish does. I don't think there's a real difference in the long run, and to my eyes, varnish looks better for a longer period of time. But one or two coats will not do it, so I understand why people seek an easier solution. If you want to, you can varnish over oil, trying an oil finish and retreating to varnish when you give up on keeping oil pretty.

If you want a wipe on/wipe off oil, many folks here will recommend "boat soup."
There are a few recipes. Mine is usually one third linseed oil (boiled), one third old varnish and some turpentine (roughly one third, but I usually add that last to "taste"). Many variations of this soup exist, but it is a good approach if you want a wipe on/wipe off solution. As usual, multiple thin coats seem to work best. You can work it in with a scotchbrite pad, or just put it on, wait ten minutes and wipe it off, adding more soup as desired.

I don't use much boat soup though as I find varnishing small pieces like handrails to be pleasant, and I prefer the look.

[will tracey]

Sold.

Thanks Lew

[JimConlin]

No pine tar, Lew?

[Lew Barrett]

Oh, you can certainly use pine tar. I don't, but I know people do (mostly from years of being here!). For yacht work I think the pine tar isn't required, and adds a difficult to obtain element to the recipe; I also believe (but couldn't prove) that it adds to the darkening. But I'll grant you Jim, the addition of pine tar makes the soup a more traditional slurry. The recipe I follow will dry hard overnight without the pine tar and is easier to make with materials at hand. Pine tar probably offers a bit more protection (against mold and spores?) at the expense of having to source pine tar:D My soup seems to be pretty common here amongst my friends. I think you easterners love pine tar more than we left coasters do. An acquired taste! :D

[Rob Stokes, N. Vancouver]

Linseed oil will (may) eventually blacken with exposure - but tung oil won't. Tung oil molecules are actually a bit smaller that linseed oil molecules so with tung oil, you'll end up with just as much chatoyance (apparent "depth" of finish) as you would with linseed oil - in fact, maybe more.

Boat soup made with (raw) tung oil will also need japan drier added to make sure it polymerizes (cures). This is my goto finish I keep close to my bench

As a note though, you can purchase what's called a "tung oil finish" (verses raw tung oil) and these will polymerize into a film finish out of the can (note: most "tung oil" products you pick up in a paint store or hardware store will actually be a tung oil finish). My preference is for the "Circa 1850" brand and have used it very successfully on teak indoors and out. Best method of application is with a clean lint free cloth- min two coats indoors - three outdors (you can apply the coats approx 1/2 hour apart depending on humidity).

Tung oil is also the key ingredient in most (better) "teak oil" products (these usually are orange coloured tung oil finishes).

And as Lew says - if you try it and don't like the look, you can varnish right over top after scuffing the oiled finish gently with some 220 sandpaper.

[Lew Barrett]

Another product that I will report on next year...this year's the test....is Daly's Sea Fin teak oil, which I used on the dinghy. If it doesn't darken appreciably this year or next, I'd say it would be a good off the shelf solution. Eric Hvalsoe has used it for yeas and seems to have had very goos duccess with it.

[Candyfloss]

Re: new teak
Another product that I will report on next year...this year's the test....is Daly's Sea Fin teak oil, which I used on the dinghy. If it doesn't darken appreciably this year or next, I'd say it would be a good off the shelf solution. Eric Hvalsoe has used it for yeas and seems to have had very goos duccess with it.

What is this stuff like so far Lew? I have a dinghy to varnish & can't wait till next year.:o

[Eric Hvalsoe]

I am interested in knowing about tongue oil and would value others experience with a particular tongue oil product. As regards Daly's SeaFin Teak Oil - I have used it for years (more than 25) on the hull interiors of my traditional lapstrake boats. Varnish seems silly and God forbid it should ever have to be stripped. Paint would be a lot of work. Teak Oil is a relatively easy solution. Daly's can add UV protection for a little extra$. It does cure and harden - I can't really tell you what the stuff is. I go for a saturation finish and avoid a film build up. My boats tend to be treated with
some care by their owners. Most teak oil interiors will weather a bit eventually, all depending on actual exposure. At the Center For Wooden Boats, where many boats are left out year around and recieve maximum exposure they use 'boat soup' which includes Pine Tar. The interiors go black and stay black.

I don't think this has much to do with Teak grab rails. If you want the things to look bright, then varnish them, watch them and keep them varnished. 'Varnish' covers a wide range of brightwork systems. I use several different products for 'hard' brightwork surfaces. Or let the teak weather naturally and go silver, as Lew suggests. Many oils will weather off quickly with exposure - how much exposure will you have?

[Lew Barrett]

As far as what Sea Fin is like, I have no idea of the chemistry but it's a thin product that you can brush or wipe on. I used scotchbrite pads, rubbing it in with the grain following Eric's description. I have also seen it used as a solution for decks when the owner didn't want teak to silver, or has fir or cedar decking and didn't want a varnished finish. It dries to a matte finish overnight, and is applied in a second coat the next day, It does not build appreciably with three coats, and is easily refreshed. Eric said the rest of what there is to say about it. I think it's a pretty cost effective and easy solution for the interior of a clinker built boat. I have the same concerns about painted and varnished interiors on such boats myself, but I don't have any uses for it on my big boat, although I would consider using it as a finish on my fir decks in the future if the oar boat holds up as well as I think it will. By the way, it;s interior was finished with Sea Fin 16 years ago, and was in very good shape when I pulled it out of the woods, so it might be an underutilized product. I don't know what it's availability is nationwide, which could represent a hitch.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/lindysmiles.jpg

The seat and rails are varnished but the rest of the interior is oiled using SeaFin, and this is pretty much what it looks like in the flesh. Two coats, right over the existing old finish, My wife was removed from the boat for the refinishing process, then put back in place :D

[Candyfloss]

Lovely boat Lew. Thanks guys.

[James McMullen]

I like SeaFin too. I no longer bother to make my own boat soup as SeaFin seems to do the job just as well, with less darkening.

[JimConlin]

Oh, you can certainly use pine tar.... I think you easterners love pine tar more than we left coasters do. An acquired taste! :D
I never touch the stuff.

[Lew Barrett]

Jim, the pine part is refreshing, but the tar part takes some getting used to :D

[Rob Stokes, N. Vancouver]

Eric - you're already using tung oil...

According to this document http://www.dalyspaint.com/PDF/specs/S-TeakOil.pdf , SeaFin teak oil is in fact based on tung oil. The MSDS for it http://www.dalyspaint.com/PDF/msds/M-TeakOil.pdf lists Mineral Spirits at being roughly 2/3 the weight of the total product which leads me to believe the product is basically tung oil, driers and perhaps some coloring added. The MSDS for Circa 1850 tung oil http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/pdfs/MSDS/Swing_paints/Tung_oil.pdf shows a range of 40 - 70% for it's petroleum based thinners as well. Even the "hardware store" Minwax product is similar: http://pages.slc.edu/~aschultz/chemical_hygiene/MSDS/all%20msds/TUNG%20OIL%20FINISH.PDF (http://pages.slc.edu/%7Easchultz/chemical_hygiene/MSDS/all%20msds/TUNG%20OIL%20FINISH.PDF)

As I said before - most commercial "teak oil" is in fact (orange) coloured polymerized tung oil. I'm sure SeaFin is a solid product and your experience with it has proven that it stands up and augments your exquisite craftsmanship. If it meets your requirements and price point - stick with it. I simply brought up the Circa 1850 product as an example to show that you can purchase similar products for a lot less $$ when they don't say "marine" on the labels and when you get down to it, much of the choice in finishing products is strictly company by company marketing based on a similar product formulation.

[Eric Hvalsoe]

Rob,
Thanks for the clarification - what do you suppose they add when they add 'UV protection'? For that matter, chemically speaking, what is UV protection in any of these clear coat products . . .

[pcford]

I like SeaFin too. I no longer bother to make my own boat soup as SeaFin seems to do the job just as well, with less darkening.

The problem with some of these oil finishes is that they do not stand up well in sunlight.

Some I know had a contract to oil the doors of a large office building. As long as it was done monthly, they looked ok.

I feel that varnish is less work in the long run. Prep is more or less the same...oil just does not last long. For a boat which is kept covered...YMMV.

[GWB]

I'll second Pat on the varnish being less work in the long run.
I have cetol on some of my exterior wood (Caprails, cockpit trim) and varnish on the rest (Bowsprit, boomkin, rudder cheeks)
The varnish looks better longer and requires less touchup than the cetol. Also the cetol wants to wear off faster in the weather - its not as hard and durable as the varnish

[Rob Stokes, N. Vancouver]

Rob,
Thanks for the clarification - what do you suppose they add when they add 'UV protection'? For that matter, chemically speaking, what is UV protection in any of these clear coat products . . .

UV protection usually means the addition of solids - perhaps a pigment powder or ??. It also means that the ability to see "through" the finish is usually diminished in a finishing product with UV protection (think Cetol). But with thin coats and not too many of them, it's unlikely that the difference in finish clarity would be too drastic.