Slick Seam & Dolphinite

[Wooden Boat Fittings]

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Can any kind person who knows please enlighten me as to what "Slick Seam" is, what it does (which I think I know, but would like confirmed,) who makes it, and where it can be purchased?

And while I'm at it, can anyone provide the same sort of information about "Dolphinite?"

Thanks in advance.

Mike

[James McMullen]

Both of these things are especially associated with traditional wooden boats. We use 'em by the quart at our shop.

Slick seam is a very smooth, waxy seam compound intended for use in traditionally planked carvel boats. It stays forever flexible so that it won't cause any problems when the boat swells up. It is expensive compared to regular seam compounds, so we usually use it only where it is visible on the topsides or down a foot or so into the bottom paint. You press it into the seam with a putty knife and scrape it flush.

Dolphinite is a traditional linseed oil based bedding compound that is used to seal, waterproof, and prevent rot-prone voids between two pieces of wood or between wood and a bit of hardware. It stays forever flexible so that it won't cause any problems when the boat swells up. Dolphinite is superior to Sikaflex or 101 or Boatlife or any of that stuff whenever you are putting down something that must be removed every few years to varnish around or polish or inspect or replace. It is much more user friendly than those compounds that come in a tube, but unlike them, doesn't have hardly any adhesive properties. Clean up with mineral spirits.

We get both of these things from a Seattle company called Fisheries Supply. I don't know where you buy this stuff in Canberra, but any actual wooden boat chandlery really ought to have 'em.

[jackster]

Slick Seam - www.davisnet.com

[rbgarr]

In my experience the oils in Dolphinite leach out after a time and it loses its sealing and flexibility characteristics.

[Lew Barrett]

I agree Dave, although it helps somewhat if both sides of the stuff you are buttering are well sealed. Dolphinite is not a permanent compound because of the leaching of it's oils, which makes Sikaflex a superior bedding compound for items that won't be removed. I find that Dolphinite usually lasts through two or three seasons, making is useful for bedding hardware between varnishing seasons, but inferior for windows, pads and portlights.

[peter radclyffe]

there are so many products, abbreviations, phrases etc new to me on this forum , i dont know these products, i think the closest equivalents in england, may be daveys seamflex for slickseam, & white lead bedding compound for dolphinite, but dolphinite seems a more versatile , longer lasting product, than white lead

[Wooden Boat Fittings]

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Thanks very much, James and everyone.

Slick Seam sounds the go for doing just that, whereas from what I'm hearing Dolphinite as a permanent bedding compound might not be as useful as polysulphide, although making it easier to remove fittings if regular removal is required.

Unfortunately, as far as I know neither is available here (although Sikaflex is.) But I'll ask around and see what I come up with.

Many thanks again, all.

Mike

[Dan McCosh]

Slickseam is beeswax with fillers that thicken it and raises its melting point. It is used as a temporary seam compound, mainly while launching a boat before it swells up. It squeezes out and the surplus can be shaved off easily, even underwater. It's not intended for use as a permanent seam compound, however.

[John B]

Is dolphinite a mastic?

[Lew Barrett]

Easy answers first:
John, Dolphinite is not a mastic, being neither a naturally formed resin, nor having any cement like qualities. The only thing it will permanently adhere to is your clothing. Oil based soft, squishy bedding compound. Usually you have to break through a half inch crust that has formed on the top of the can....this when you bring it home from the store, and frequently forever thereafter until, out of force of habit, you buy a new can and the cycle repeats!:eek:

Dolphinite is an oil based bedding compound. It is not, strictly speaking a seam compound. It smells (to me) of linseed oil when you first crack the can but I wouldn't bet my life on what kind of oil the base is. The rest is an emulsion of "brown stuff" that renders it a consistency not unlike white lead paste when it comes out of a fresh can (stiff peanut butter), but that is really the only physical similarity, as anything remotely toxic seems to have been removed from Dolphinite at least 25 years ago, when I first got into this game.

I suspect that if anything, white lead putty/paste will outlast Dolphinite since it's hard to conceive of a product with less truly long term protective qualities than Dolphinite. For best result it is critical to seal all wood surfaces when using this stuff, least the oils wick out into the raw wood in short order. With proper sealing, even by shellac, the life of Dolphinite will be considerably enhanced. I suspect the same is true for white lead paste in practice, since it is the dissipation of the oil that, in my observation, renders the products useless. I would surmise, however, that with the lead based compounbds, the wood will be left with a nasty little surprise for rot and spore molds, whereas I think they actually thrive on Dolphinite (sorta joking here).

So: Dolphinite is a product available in brown, "natural (tan)" and white for bedding items that require periodic removal like deck hardware, and white lead is for bedding objects that will require periodic removal . (:DS :D) But white lead or red lead paint is I am finding also for faying surfaces and as a base for making killer paint. I suspect using raw, rather than boiled linseed oil in proper amounts might increase their durability and would be interested to hear about the experience of others in this regard.

I am in process of creating a stash of white and red lead in various forms for myself and have already bought a lifetime's supply of Dolphinite, which, as I said, goes off in the can! :D

Hope that helps!

Thanks Jake!

[johngsandusky]

Slick Seam is intended to be permanent, the people who make it think it is. I put some in ten years ago, I haven't had to replace it. I have not used it above the water, as the instructions warn against doing so. I think the concern is that it will melt in hot sun. The user above has apparently had good results with it in topside seams. I would suggest you consider your environment and paint it white, dark colors absorb heat.

[Wooden Boat Fittings]

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Thanks to all for your comments.

A quick wrap-up --

Davis have three agents here for some (only) of their products. Whether Slick Seam is handled by the last one of the three to be queried is still to be established, but it isn't handled by the first two.

Davis will not accept credit card payments from overseas clients. :confused: I find this quite astounding. Such transactions are the lifeblood of many companies, and I wonder how much trade they have lost because of this policy.

Slick Seam is what we need and what we will get somehow, despite all efforts by the manufacturers and their agents to thwart us!!!

Mike

[outofthenorm]

Mike, if you can't find anywhere online that will ship SS to you, I'd be happy to pick up a few and send them. I love the stuff and have used it for many many years, always below the waterline, never above - well just once, and I learned that the warning on the can is for real.

- Norm

[outofthenorm]

Regarding Dolfinite, I agree with Lew that it isn't what it used to be, but I think there is more that's changed than just the toxicity.

During my restoration, I've pulled bits off the boat that haven't moved for 40 years or more and found good, reasonably pliable dolfinite under them. It was still doing its job after all that time.

However, I've done the same with things that I put down in "new" dolfinte 7 or 8 years ago, and found it dried out and crumbly - despite the fact that the wood surfaces were well coated with red lead.

When I re-bed things now, I'm using poly-goop more often than Dolfinite.

- Norm

[Wooden Boat Fittings]

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Thanks for your comments Norm, and especially for the offer to buy some and send it over -- really appreciated. In fact my Step of Last Resort was to write to US friends and ask if they'd do just that. However, it seems it will now be unnecessary as Helgi is apparently managing to have some sent over direct from a well-known (but seemingly less-paranoid) US chandler.

Is it spelt Dolfinite? Sorry. It sounds from what you've said that the formulation has been changed, doesn't it? Given the earlier comments, I'd decided to go with polysulphides from now on anyway, so it's good to have that confirmed.

Mike

[johnw]

We're talking about that green stuff I used on my Snipe's garboards when nothing else would stop the leaks, right? Waxes and silicon? What paints work over the top of those releasing agents?

I have to say, it worked when nothing else did, but I didn't know it was meant to be permanent. Might as well be, in cold water it doesn't melt.

[Larks]

Mike, are you going to be able to distribute the Slickseam? If so here's my hand up for a tub or two!! Any idea on shelf life or storage requirements? I couldn't find anything on their web site.

[Wooden Boat Fittings]

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It's the Davis website you want, Greg, kindly posted by Jackster at Post No. 3. I wasn't proposing to try to distribute the stuff, as they already have three Aussie agents for (at least some of) their products.

But see your PMs.

John, what colour the stuff is I have no idea. The blurb says, "Made of wax, pure mineral products and silicate fibers, Slick Seam adheres well to most solid surfaces whether dry, wet or even oil stained. Applies easily and cleans up fast with mineral spirits. Cures ready for paint in 30 minutes," so it sounds like that might be what it is. I guess a skin forms over it once it's exposed to air?

Mike

[Larks]

Yes, I did look at that particular link and they have a link to product specs and instructions but strangely there are no product spec's there, only the instructions. Not to worry though, I've emailed them for it and will pass it on if you're interested and don't already have it. It's ironic that you raised this thread and I've been watching it because I'd just started looking for the stuff when you did, so thanks for your impeccable timing Mike.

[Wooden Boat Fittings]

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You're entirely welcome, old son. And yes please. :)

Mike

[Larks]

Thanks Mike, I just got your PM as well. I'd add that I've ordered stuff from West Marine over the phone in the past and had fantastic service from them. Actually the first time was after I'd emailed them about deck shoes of all things, asking about how to pay for them other than over the web (in the days before I had confidence in providing my credit card over the web) a guy telephoned me back and I payed over the phone on a Friday and the deck shoes turned up in Darwin the next Wednesday:eek:!!! I can't get stuff that quickly from within Australia.

[outofthenorm]

Shelf life for Slickseam is just slightly longer than the life span of granite. Doesn't freeze or dry out. It will melt in the heat, but when it cools, it solidifies again with no apparent change. Get lots.

Colour is a sort of soft sickly green. You can in fact paint over it and expect the paint to stick - don't ask me how that's possible, because it doesn't make sense that anything will stick to wax - but it does.

- Norm

PS - BTW, the stuff sticks even to wet wood - I've used it on occasion to stop leaks from the inside of the boat!

[Wooden Boat Fittings]

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Ah. Great, Norm. Thanks. (That answers JohnW's question too, by the way.)

Mike

[Larks]

Norm, how about out of the jar? Other than the possibility of melting over the summer if it gets too hot in the shed, do you think it is suitable to use quite a long time out from launching if I want to get my hull stripped and painted sooner rather than later in the refit?

[Lew Barrett]

It is spelled "Dolfinite" as it happens. Ignore my prior spelling; but heed my advice!

[outofthenorm]

No problem doing it early. It does a bit of out-gassing to "cure" but doesn't really skin over. It never gets hard. Ever. I just cleaned some seams I first dealt with 20 years ago. Still pretty much the same as the stuff in the jar.

BTW, If the air temperature is above 10 C (50 F) or so, it's fine right out of the jar. Put it on with putty knife. Colder than that, it's best to warm it a bit. One cold Spring, I used 2 jars, 1 to work from and the other sitting in a double boiler on low heat. If it's hotter than 38 C, go and have a beer and wait till morning.

- Norm

[Larks]

I emailed Westmarine last night about shipping to Australia and price - had a response when I woke up this morning. Basically, 4 jars airmailed here is about USD$133.00 (not including any possible customs fees but I haven't been hit with any on anything else they have sent). Postage costs just a little more than the product itself.

[pcford]

Slick Seam is used around here for temporarily sealing underwater seams as they take up. I would think that a proper seam compound is what you need.

By the way, it is a mystery to me why you all use anybody but www.fisheriessupply.com They have been around forever and are a for real marine hardware store.

[Larks]

In my case PC I think this soft temporary fix is the best but I'd be interested in your experience and advice on it. I have a strip planked hull that has opened up along a few of the glue lines so just want it to stem the tide a bit when she takes up without putting in anything that's going to compress the huon pine any further when it does take up.

I'll contact fisheries supplies and see how they are with international shipping. Personally I use WestMarine for the reasons that I gave above, it's amazing how a small bit of customer service can leave a lasting impression.

[pcford]

In my case PC I think this soft temporary fix is the best but I'd be interested in your experience and advice on it. I have a strip planked hull that has opened up along a few of the glue lines so just want it to stem the tide a bit when she takes up without putting in anything that's going to compress the huon pine any further when it does take up.

I'll contact fisheries supplies and see how they are with international shipping. Personally I use WestMarine for the reasons that I gave above, it's amazing how a small bit of customer service can leave a lasting impression.

Really don't have much to add. Slick Seam is used as a temporary fix...it is great for it. I would use a traditional underwater seam compound for a more permanent fix.

Fisheries is the major supplier for yards and for supplies to far-flung areas of the NW and Alaska. I presume they would be good for what you want to do.

Let's face it. West Marine is the 7-11 (sorry, convenience store for groceries and sometimes gasoline in the US) of marine hardware stores. They are convenient but professionals never go there unless there is no alternative.

Good luck.

[Larks]

Thanks, I've just dropped Fisheries an email to see what they can do internationally.

[pcford]

Thanks, I've just dropped Fisheries an email to see what they can do internationally.

Great. Let us know how you do; it might be helpful to others.