$$$ Nails!

[MRJarret]

Ready to start planking, but first need to fasten my frame heels (boxed) into the keel. J-town wants $450 or so for a box of bronze ring nails! Does anyone have a suggestion that I can afford?

Plank fasteners are bronze screws and copper rivets. Could go Monel, or bronze, but want to stay away from galvy if possible. Vessel is a thirty foot pinky schooner, plank (Larch) on frame (Locust), White Oak backbone. She is sister to Lance Lee's PERSERVERANCE.

Thanks,

Michael

[JimConlin]

Call Sta-Fast in New Bedford.
http://gis.net/~babbitt/
They haven't learned Jamestown's delusion that bronze is gold.

[TerryLL]

Hamilton sells bronze ring nails for $16.50 a pound.

http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/browse.cfm

[Paul Maselli]

Clark Craft Fasteners - Tonawanda NY

Speak to Ron, they sell domestic and certified imported bronze fasteners. All traditional boatbuilding needs.

Ron
CC Fasteners .com
sales@ccfasteners.com
1-716-873-2640

[Lew Barrett]

I looked in here because I had hopes of finding somebody who could supply #16 by 2 1/2 sb oval head wood screws. These remain elusive! No problem to find flat heads, though.

[pcford]

I looked in here because I had hopes of finding somebody who could supply #16 by 2 1/2 sb oval head wood screws. These remain elusive! No problem to find flat heads, though.

Don't like stainless but I think they would be ok in this application. (?)

[SMARTINSEN]

Mertons.com. MRJarrett, they are within driving distance for you in West Springfield Mass.

11.60/ lb if over 25 lbs.

vs

Jamestown @ 21.98/ lb

But I do not know what sizes you need

JD is crazy expensive for fasteners. Kingplanker are you listening?

[Paul Pless]

Ready to start planking...whoa there... you got a pinky schooner in frame? we need pics! :)

[Lew Barrett]

I'm looking for #16 by 2.5 inch wood screws with oval heads. I haven't tried Merton's but nobody else seems to have them. I can get by with slotted flatheads, so I probably will do that. Those are available reasonably and locally, with any savings I might make by shopping around the country eaten up by freight costs for the quantity I need (60).

Stainless won't do, Pat. They are attaching those bronze stanchions to my deck, and will be out of whack. The slotted screws are simply what's avalable here, though an R&P or Frearson head would have worked just as well for me. I'm a traditionalist, but not that much of a traditionalist. The oval heads would just have been a bit more forgiving and attractive for this job. I was willing to go the distance, but the only place I was able to find online with this spec was in India. I put the slotted flatheads on will-call this AM because at this point, I need some screws! If there are oval head fasteners in my size, I'd grab 'em regardless of the driver needed for them. But where?

[pcford]

Stainless won't do, Pat. They are attaching those bronze stanchions to my deck, and will be out of whack. The slotted screws are simply what's avalable here, though an R&P or Frearson head would have worked just as well for me. I'm a traditionalist, but not that much of a traditionalist. The oval heads would just have been a bit more forgiving and attractive for this job. I was willing to go the distance, but the only place I was able to find online with this spec was in India. I put the slotted flatheads on will-call this AM because at this point, I need some screws! If there are oval head fasteners in my size, I'd grab 'em regardless of the driver needed for them. But where?

Why are you uneasy about stainless? Electrolysis? I understand it is a critical installation.

Straight slots are appropriate for Rita. Ovals hide misalignment better.

[Canoeyawl]

Lew, have you called Leahy?
http://www.rjleahy.com/

[Lew Barrett]

I did, CY. I took your advisement as I always do!
They didn't have anything in oval head.

Pat, I just reckon I'd as soon have the bronze. One of her stanchions had a couple of stainless in them already (somebody at some point, I guess) and that always seemed wrong to me. I can get the alignment straight enough, but wanted the extra insurance just in case. My new familiarity with vix bits will help ease the alignment issues. I figure I'm not concerned about electrolysis on deck, but it can't hurt to have all of them be bronze. Against the labor I put into this job, the difference in cost is minimal.

[pcford]

Pat, I just reckon I'd as soon have the bronze. One of her stanchions had a couple of stainless in them already (somebody at some point, I guess) and that always seemed wrong to me. I can get the alignment straight enough, but wanted the extra insurance just in case. My new familiarity with vix bits will help ease the alignment issues. I figure I'm not concerned about electrolysis on deck, but it can't hurt to have all of them be bronze. Against the labor I put into this job, the difference in cost is minimal.

Well, good luck. Oval is better...are your stanchion bases "bright" or painted? If they are not painted I can certainly see your objection to the stainless.

By the way...Madera does not have an oval in the whole damn boat...nobody notices.

[Lew Barrett]

I wouldn't exactly say "bright," more like "patinated" but they are not painted. There aren't any oval heads on Rita either. But I like the idea of the less critical alignment.

Canoeyawl, a real mencsh, offered to help me source some oval heads, (I have to say it in public even though he is......shy!) but I think the real differences are minor enough not to put him to too much trouble.

When this job is done, I'll post some pics to another thread and discuss the methodology that lead to my choices.

[MRJarret]

Thanks for the leads, guys... now I'm back at it with my wallet somewhat intact! :)

MRJ

[reddog]

MRJ

Any pics of the work to date. Pinky schooners arn't a dime a dozen you know.;)

Earl

[BrianM]

Ready to start planking, but first need to fasten my frame heels (boxed) into the keel. J-town wants $450 or so for a box of bronze ring nails! Does anyone have a suggestion that I can afford?




Yes.. StaFast

http://www.standardfastenings.com/

Their prices were always way way better then J-town.. a boat "boutique".

Buy in quantity, use what you need, and sell off the rest at your local boatyard, works like a charm.

[peter radclyffe]

if you are very careful,& check your pilot size on a test piece, you can drive heavy gauge copper nails at an angle, there is not much outboard strain on most frame heels, drill bigger thru the frame, if you find it hard to get screws, consider that on some boats the frame ends are stopped for limbers, as long as your floors are strong, & well fastened, you should be alright

[MRJarret]

Thanks again, all.

I went with Hamiltons in Maine -- two pounds at $16 per. I'm happy :) they are due here Monday and it'll bring me that much closer to planking. Jamestown's minimum order for #8 x 3 1/2" ring nails is 100 pounds!!!! Sta-fast wouldn't sell to me because they supply J-town and saw it as a conflict.

Peter -- For this vessel, the frame heels need to be well fastened, as the floors are independent of the frames.

Regards,

Michael

[Jamestown]

Full Disclosure: This is posted by Jamestown Distributors

Because of the comments in this thread (and others) we have lowered all of our fastener prices significantly.

Thank you for your help.
JD

[Mrleft8]

Well, well, well! See? Sometimes people will respond positively to critisim.
JD, is the minimum order still 100Lb?

[Thorne]

Not quite sure I believe "Jamestown", but it would be nice.

After purchasing some SB fasteners from Jamestown, I now usually buy from Hamilton -- mostly because they will sell partial boxes of fasteners (even individual ones) and J's won't. Took me FOREVER to get rid of most of a box of #10 3.5" SB screws...and that included trading some to a local Forumite for some Pine Tar.

[Jamestown]

We are looking into all of our minimum requirements for fasteners. It will take some time to make these changes -- but we are committed to making this right. Please be patient.

Again, thank you for your help.

Jamestown Distributors

[peter radclyffe]

well done jamestown, any other firms pricing that need lowering http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif

[peter radclyffe]

Thanks again, all.

I went with Hamiltons in Maine -- two pounds at $16 per. I'm happy :) they are due here Monday and it'll bring me that much closer to planking. Jamestown's minimum order for #8 x 3 1/2" ring nails is 100 pounds!!!! Sta-fast wouldn't sell to me because they supply J-town and saw it as a conflict.

Peter -- For this vessel, the frame heels need to be well fastened, as the floors are independent of the frames.

Regards,

Michael
i mean to fasten them well

[MRJarret]

"i mean to fasten them well"

Peter -- You were clear in your other post; I'm sorry I was not clear enough regarding the copper nails. :)
My experience with copper nails leaves me with doubt as to how hard they could be driven into the white oak keel, necessitating a too-large pilot hole. The bronze ring nails are doing the trick...

Michael

[peter radclyffe]

greathttp://www.woodenboat.com/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Lew Barrett]

I'll kick in with my own thanks to Jamestown. An impressive response.


I ended up buying domestic slotted flatheads myself, and intend to screw 'em in this weekend.