14' Thompson row boat

[stopper65]

Hi,
New to the board, just picked up a 1946 Thompson row boat that will need resealing and refinishing at least. Just wanted to see if anyone had any info on these boats, and try out posting on this board.

[Thorne]

Welcome to the Forum! There are some very experienced folks here, hopefully some Thompson experts will chime in soon.

As for the boat and restoration, photos are much easier than text.

Here's how to post photos on this forum:

First - don't attach photos. Only a tiny version will display.

Second - Post the photos on the web. Use your own website, or a free image hosting service like www.flickr.com, picturetrail, photobucket, etc.

Once posted on the web, right-click the photo to copy the URL (web address). Always test first by pasting the photo URL into the location field (http:// ) of a web browser and see if the photo displays.

Third - once posted on the web, try this procedure while logged in to this Forum:

1. Click the "User CP" link in the browser window in the top left of the menu bar.

2. Click the "Edit Options" link about halfway down the left column.

3. At the bottom of the next page in "Misc Options", select "Enhanced Interface" from the pulldown list. Click the SAVE CHANGES button.

4. Once this interface has been selected, in any "Reply" window you can click the "insert photo" icon --> a little yellow square icon with the stamp in the upper right corner, the mountains in the lower center.

5. Once the little dialog box titled "Please enter the URL of your image" comes up, paste the URL of the photo in the Þeld.

[C. Ross]

Bump
AndreasJordahlRhude is president of the Thompson Antique & Classic Boat Rally, Inc. and posts here. You can pm him, or email at thompsonboat@msn.com

[stopper65]

picture test, just trying to see if I can make this work

[stopper65]

It looks like the pictures posted. I was told that this is a 1946 Thompson 14' rowboat. The brass tag says THOMPSON BROS BOAT MFG CO CORTLAND NY. Just wondering if the experts agree. The previous owner told me that it leaks badly. I took a flashlight and shined it along the bottom and I can see several places that light shines thru between the strips. Overall it does not seem to be in bad shape, no rotted wood etc. Since I am new to this wooden boat thing I would like to know what is involved in sealing the bottom? Does this type of boat use cotton between the strips with some kind of sealant over it? I would like to repair this boat the proper way and need advice.

[AndreasJordahlRhude]

www.thompsondockside.com has a good discussion forum for Thompson boats et.al. Your questions have probably been asked by someone else already, so do some searching of the existing posts.

Is there a hull ID stamped into the wood of the transom, inside the boat?

What is her exact centerline length and exact gunwale length? What is her maximum beam (width)? Is her hull strip-built planking? Or is the hull planked very thin boards about 4" wide with canvas covering on the outside?

Thompson Bros. Boat Mfg. Co. was based at Peshtigo, WI, starting in 1904. In 1924 a branch factory was started up at Cortland, NY. In 1953 second generation Thompson men started Cruisers, Inc. at Oconto, WI. On 01 January 1959 these three boat factories were split up amongst various Thompson family groups and became separate and started competing against each other. The Oconto and Peshtigo operations reatained their names. Cortland became Thompson Boat Company of New York, Inc. In January 1962 Thompson of NY was purchased by Chris-Craft.

Cheers,

Andreas

[Lewisboats]

From what I can see that isn't a row boat but an open motor skiff. Look at the flat run from the front aft...that is designed to plane. The transom is also set up for a fairly hefty motor...say up to 30 hp. You CAN row it but it isn't optimal and will require more effort than a true row boat. I picked up a '58 16 footer back in September that I will be working on for the next few years restoring it.

[stopper65]

There does not appear to be canvas on the outside. The boat is planked with very narrow strips of wood (1" wide). Overall length 13'5 1/2", beam 49 1/4". I find no markings at all on the inside of the transom.

[stopper65]

More pictures of the 14' thompson, inside structure

[Lewisboats]

Yup! Definitely a motor boat. The knee at the transom to support the thrust of the motor the BIG giveaway. The one I have is lapstrake...this appears to be strip built. Good luck on getting things together. I suspect you will need to 'glass the hull to get it back into shape. Try to separate ONE of the strips from the rest and check the thickness. If it is equal or less than 1/2" I would do a total sanding of the exterior and glass the whole enchilada with some good epoxy and 6 Oz. glass on the exterior.

[Scot L T]

Here's a link to some nice photos. I think they are all cedar/canvas models but some good interior shots.
http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?t=4598

[Lewisboats]

Is there canvas on the outside of yours? Redundant question because you already posted that there doesn't appear to be canvas on the outside so why do you post the link? Let's work on yours before playing with others'. What is the thickness of YOUR planking/Stripping and could it be glassed to make it better? Remember...these boats were only meant to last 5-10 years... not a half a century. Getting something like this useful again without a FULL restoration is an application of current technology...not ancient history.

[Scot L T]

Not wishing to be the cause any issues here this fine Saturday morning. The original request was for some info. I knew of some and passed it on. It's not all entirely relevant to stopper65's boat but if one were to look at the sixth photo of the first set of photos (in the link) there is a copy of an original page from a Thompson catalogue. The second boat down is a photo of the Thompson 14" Allwood (strip built) Fisherman with some info. It may be relevant or not but there it is.

[stopper65]

Thanks folks, any and all information is welcome. My main question is: how was the hull sealed originally? I would like to do this in the same fashion if possible. With my limited knowledge I thought it was a big no no to fiberglass over a hull of this type. Any thoughts as what to do with the inside? I love the varnished wood look, this appears to be some kind of brown paint possibly. I would assume that the hull would be sealed first and the inside addressed later. Is this correct?

[AndreasJordahlRhude]

Do not fiberglass it. That is the death knell of old boats like this.

The interior should be varnished. The exterior painted. Many times there were three colours from the factory: one for the spray rail, one above the spray rail and a another below the spray rail.

The cedar strips are bead and cove with convex and concave top and bottom edges. Rope caulk was often tiems used at the graboard to keel junction. These along with the paint provide the water tightness. The boats were intended to be painted every few years.

Brochures for Thompson Boat et.al. are available for sale on CD-Rom at www.wcha.org and www.dragonflycanoe.com

Andreas

[stopper65]

So just a good quality marine paint will be sufficient to seal the bottom? That is good news indeed. While there are no large gaps between boards, light will show thru with a flashlight directly on seam. In the past I painted a wooden powerboat with I believe a Petit product. I sanded the loose and flaking areas, scuffed up the whole thing, and covered with several good coats of paint. It came out beautiful and lasted fine for the couple of years I owned the boat. Any suggestions and sources for the type of paint I should use on this boat? I hope to strip and varnish the inside as well. I figure on just sanding this which should serve as many hours of therapy. Is this the best way? I have not searched yet, but I assume there is a book that is considered to be the wooden boat refinishing bible. Any suggestions along those lines?

[Lew Barrett]

Great little boat!

A few comments on refinishing the interior. If you believe the varnish base to be still sound but that the boat just needs some build on it, sanding the base (and bleaching the bare spots) and building from there is probably the most efficient route.

However, if you are planning to remove all the existing finish and start from a bare wood base, then either a heat gun or a chemcial stripper (possibly a bit of both) are the most efficient paths.

There is a lot of (sometimes contentious) information here about stripping, sanding, bleaching, staining (if necessary or desired) and varnishing (including long and sometimes silly...but still helpful.... threads) about selecting materials, sealing techniques,
brushes and brush technique ad infinitum. Use the search function with key words like "varnish" "brushes," " bleaching" "sanding" and "staining"

However, as a first significant warning, let me say this:

If you elect to sand your way through the old finishes, make sure you pay special attention to the existing profiles of the wood. DO NOT DO ANYTHING TO ROUND OFF OR CHANGE THE PROFILE OF THE FRAMES/RIBS AND WOODEN ITEMS THAT COMPRISE THE STRUCTURE OF THE BOAT.

Boat restoration is not a race.

Resource books and fun books:

Danenberg

Whitman on Brightwork

[AndreasJordahlRhude]

He wrote that the interior has been painted. Hopefully on top of the existing varnish. This will make striping the paint easier.

Originally the boat was painted and the bead and cove strip planking was meant to swell up when the boat was in the water, this provided the water tightness. The ability to of the wood to swell enuff to create a water tight seal now after all these years may be gone.

Andreas

[stopper65]

The boat was used yearly until 2005, and since has been stored indoors. I do not have a place to keep this boat in the water at all times, and wonder if it may be the wrong boat for me to use weekends etc. Any thoughts?

[Lew Barrett]

Andreas, I think (from the photos) the boat looks like it has a varnished interior, or what is left of a varnished interior. But maybe I got that wrong?


In respect to how you use it, stopper, I suspect it will be fine if returned to good repair. Any (wooden) boat you select will have issues of "taking up" if not stored in the water all year. But this boat was built with the notion that it would be launched and retrieved.

The question you have to ask yourself is does this boat seem of a size and configuration to meet your needs? Very few 14 foot outboards built to the Thompson's scantlings would have been kept in the water all year round, regardless of their vintage.

Personally, I find it very attractive.

[stopper65]

Thanks, I think it will work well for me, but the only way to find out is to try it. Some of the interior is varnished, but it looks like some is painted or stained brown. It may just be the old varnish, I am not sure. I think what I will do is refinish the hull and just try to spruce up the interior as best as I can, and give it a try in the spring. Hopefully it will not be too bad to row, although the more I look at it I am not sure!

[Lew Barrett]

I can't tell by looking, but I suspect it lacks any sort of real keel which may affect
tracking and the ability to hold a line to some extent. It really does look like a motorboat rather than a row boat. You might like, in a somewhat similar vein for example, a Penn Yan dinghy a bit better as a row boat. I don't see any oarlocks on this boat either, which does speak a bit to the original intent of the design. On the other hand, there's no arguing with the two oars clearly visible in the photos.

[stopper65]

Lew,
The more I look at it I think you are correct about the motor boat thing, although it does have oar locks, and appears, with my limited knowledge, to have a keel. I was looking for a car topper, but came across this and fell in love. I am not a big time rower, just plan on floating around local ponds and drowning a few worms. I want to make it so it floats, and looks decent. The most important consideration is not to do anything to hurt it. I will do my research and figure out the best way to seal her up, and give it a try.

[stopper65]

Then again, maybe I will go crazy and find and antique motor for it...

[Lew Barrett]

Originally Posted by stopper65

Then again, maybe I will go crazy and find and antique motor for it...

Now you're talking. A fifties something Evinrude should be about right!

[C. Ross]

Originally Posted by Lew Barrett

Now you're talking. A fifties something Evinrude should be about right!

And fun. A quick ebay check for motors with the right horsepower for your boat shows this one




or this one



or this one



You can probably get any of those three for $150-$300, and they show up on ebay and craigslist pretty frequently so you should be able to buy one locally.

Most places you can find someone who loves tuning and tinkering with these motors.

[Lew Barrett]

Originally Posted by C. Ross

or this one

]

Does this one look a bit challenged? I'm no mid fifties big twin expert, but something looks a bit odd here. I just can't quite put my finger on it!

But the concept is right. I love the little Merc.

[C. Ross]

Originally Posted by Lew Barrett

Does this one look a bit challenged? I'm no mid fifties big twin expert, but something looks a bit odd here. I just can't quite put my finger on it!

But the concept is right. I love the little Merc.

The one on ebay next to the sales brochure snagged from the internet (same horsepower, same year!):


The prop looks odd to me, Lew, but I guess it's original. But I also agree the Merc is the pick of that litter.

I grew up with old Johnsons and Evinrudes and Mercurys and Sea Horses.

Nothing better than getting one to start on the (usually third or fourth) pull on a cool morning, just after sunrise, heading out to go fishing with your brother. When we got older (but not old enough) we'd sneak a couple of beers into the bait bucket so my dad wouldn't find them, and we'd fish or go swimming or push whatever rowboat or canoe we had up into the reeds and go get lost in the woods.

But I digress.

That Thompson is a beaut, and hopefully just a little cosmetics will get it back out on the lake. Congrats stopper65!

[stopper65]

I agree, that Mercury has the right look. Does anyone have any idea what horsepower would be suitable for this boat, and how much weight it can handle on the transom? Some of those engine seem mighty heavy for that little boat!

[Lew Barrett]

Andreas? I'd think 10 to 20 HP would be the deal. I agree the 30 HP Big Twin looks a bit big for it.

Cris, I think it's just the angle of the photo that makes the 30 HP motor look odd to me. The lower unit in the advert looks identical, so I think it is "just me" after all.

[AndreasJordahlRhude]

In the 1953 Thompson Bros. Boat Mfg. Co. brochure, a 14-46 (14 ft. gunwale length and 46 inch width) TVT was rated for up to 16 HP and upwards to 50 HP for racing!

A 14-50 TVT was rated for up to 22 HP in 1953. 14-55 up to 33 HP.

Andreas

[stopper65]

I was showing the boat to friend of mine this afternoon, and I said I was thinking about getting a small outboard motor for it. He then said "it looks like it would be a good candidate for the early fifties Firestone outboard I have had stored in my parents basement for the last 15 years"...I will get it when I go home for Thanksgiving, and we can work something out.