Desertec

[LeeG]

anyone have an opinion on how likely this will come to fruition? The general plan is a solar farm in North Africa sending electricity to Europe. $400Billion.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8337735.stm

A sustainable energy initiative that will start with a huge solar project in the Sahara desert has been announced by a consortium of 12 European businesses.
The Desertec Industrial Initiative aims to supply Europe with 15% of its energy needs by 2050.
Companies who signed up to the $400bn (£240bn) venture include Deutsche Bank, Siemens and the energy provider E.On.
The consortium, which will be based in Munich, hopes to start supplying Europe with electricity by 2015.
Desertec Industrial Initiative aims to produce solar-generated electricity with a vast network of power plants and transmission grids across North Africa and the Middle East.

[George.]

It will happen. Nothing radically new about it. Abengoa has been doing that in Southern Spain for years, on a commercial scale.

[paladin]

Dunno save no bucks....the line losses eat up a substantial portion of the energy....storage battery technology is still far behind, supercapacitors have a brighter future, I think......

[Captain Blight]

The point isn't to save money, Mr Chuck. The point is to get the infrastructure in place and the technology developed before the oil and the coal runs out.

[Paul Pless]

Originally Posted by LeeG

anyone have an opinion on how likely this will come to fruition?

Pretty damned likely... the largest investors by far are all German, you know how determined they can be . . .

Originally Posted by LeeG

include Deutsche Bank, Siemens and the energy provider E.On.
The consortium, which will be based in Munich

[John Teetsel]

Originally Posted by Captain Blight

The point is to get the infrastructure in place and the technology developed before the oil and the coal runs out.

I'd question the wisdom of the location - Lybia, Egypt, Algeria. If you don't like being dependent on them for oil why set youself up to be dependent on them for electricity? Granted sun doesn't shine in Southern France like it does in Northern Lybia but it does shine.

[LeeG]

Originally Posted by Captain Blight

The point isn't to save money, Mr Chuck. The point is to get the infrastructure in place and the technology developed before the oil and the coal runs out.

hey, we're not going to be left behind, China is financing the largest windfarm in Texas!!

WTF?

[oznabrag]

Originally Posted by John Teetsel

I'd question the wisdom of the location - Lybia, Egypt, Algeria. If you don't like being dependent on them for oil why set youself up to be dependent on them for electricity? Granted sun doesn't shine in Southern France like it does in Northern Lybia but it does shine.

I agree.

The theme in the 'green revolution' must be 'Decentralization'.

[Captain Blight]

Well, perhaps.

In any event, it's not my money or my watts so I don't have a dog in this fight; maybe it's a lot of money to spend on proof-of-concept, but also remember that, generally speaking, the EU doesn't have the same troubles with North Africa we would.

[mizzenman]

I'm hopefull about it. It would be cool if this huge resource was used and the Africans made a dime on it. However I'm afraid the european companys will take the profit. As has been the case with oil.

All I know is that this has been a talked anout for years at my uni

[delecta]

[quote=Captain Blight;2373606) The point is to get the infrastructure in place and the technology developed before the oil and the coal runs out.[/QUOTE]

So what is the latest date that we run out of oil, coal, oil shale, nuclear power, water power and so on?

Just kind of wondering <cheers>

[John Teetsel]

Priced acreage in Southern France vs Northern Libya lately?

Valid point but what's your $400 billion project worth when it's nationalized?
What kind of ROE do you have when they get pissed and turn off the lights?

It's not like the French have no history with the Algerians you know.

[John Teetsel]

Did you click on the map of the project from the article? Hugely decentralized, multiple transmission lines.

"My brother and I against our cousin. My cousin and I against our neighbor. My neighbor and I against the infidels."
You're a little slow on this concept, Milo. You, dubya, chency, neocons in general. It's only been around for fifteen CENTURIES.

What will an injection of 400 billion dollars in industrial construction do for the economies of all those desert nations?

Lunch money. What have they done with their trillions of oil profits?

[John Teetsel]

I say look at history.

You need to spend some time in that part of the world (or at least pay attention to what's happened there).
They don't really hate us because we're free, but they really do hate us.

Just write 'em check for $400 billion and save yourself the embarassment of having them steal it from you.

"Fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." - the decider

[LeeG]

Originally Posted by delecta

So what is the latest date that we run out of oil, coal, oil shale, nuclear power, water power and so on?

Just kind of wondering <cheers>

Your question is phrased wrong. Resources won't run out like a depleting bank account or gas tank on empty. Resources will be insufficient to meet the demand because of geological or financial reasons. There will always be oil in the ground somewhere, the problem is that it won't be extracted in sufficient quantities to meet existing demand let alone projected demand.

If there's a collapse in the world economy the oil supplies will last a much longer time at a lower rate of consumption. As it is a recent study commissioned by the US Congress puts the peak of global oil production somewhere between a couple years ago and a couple decades out. The funny thing is that in the years leading up to the study in 2005 the projections keep moving up closer, not farther. The global recession has reduced demand but not the reality of insufficient discoveries to compensate for depleting resevoirs. In other words it's not an issue of if oil will peak but when.

The focus on oil is because of it's unique position as fuel for transportation and feedstock for materials.

[oznabrag]

The Stone, Bronze, and Iron Ages have ended. The Oil Age will end soon. The Computer Age leaves quite a lot to be desired, because it is predicated upon, and slanted toward, the Oil Age.

Sunlight in North Africa is not the answer. 'Sunlight, Hydro and Biodiesel In Your Own Backyard'* are the answer.

*With a thousand kudos (and apologies) to Sam Rabl!

[George Roberts]

$400 billion is a very large investment. I suspect that the total will change depending on how the project turns out.

The technology they are using for power generation seems to be proven technology. The only issue might be that the working fluid is water. Really hard to store water hot enough to run 24 hours per day, but ...

Low loss transmission lines seems to imply some type of super conductivity. That is really tough ti maintain.

Remember those at the cutting edge tend to pay a premium for all the technology.

Hope they make a profit.