lugsails vs. bermudan rig

[Boatmik]

Originally Posted by Todd Bradshaw

He might be doing fine or he might be passing Argentina on an uncontrolled downwind run.

Great image that!

But I don't know what is the largest possible either. With the two 26ft Bolger Martha Janes I've had experience with they responded pretty much to the same thinking with the GIS above despite balance lug mains around the 190sq ft mark.

Actually the second one drew many complaints from the owner as it was as slow as a wet week - until he asked me out for a sail and I found the downhaul was quite inadequate - so we added a cascade purchase to double the mechanical advantage and told him to use it "brutally" as the wind got up and he's been happy with the sailing performance ever since.

The only disadvantage was the tricked up one for ocean cruising (more ballast, no cockpit) had the problems with chafe that I mentioned.

But as far as a 125sq ft lugsail it isn't that bigger jump from what we've been looking at above.

The only caution is that the yard in particular and the boom to a degree should be flexible enough to bend in the gusts so the sail depowers automatically and powers back up as the gust fades.

One GIS builder used very heavy gauge aluminium tube (think it was 2" with a wall just under 1/4") and found that his GIS just wanted to fall over in gusts even with a load aboard. I think I worked out at the time that the alloy spars were around 10 times stiffer than the original tapered wooden spars specified.

The tapered timber GIS spars bend around 1 1/4" just under the effect of medium wind downhaul tension (105sq ft). With my sailing canoe where everything is pared down to keep weight down there is probably close to 2" bend in the same conditions (68sq ft in the main).

With smaller balance lug sails like the mizzen on my sailing canoe there is virtually no spar bend in any condition. To be strong enough for the stability of the boat they end up very stiff compared to the load that the smaller sail can put on them - but that's often the case with mizzens anyhow on boats of all sizes.

Hope that suggests some useful things to observe.

Best wishes

Michael

[LLaver]

I heard an interesting take on a racing challenge today from my father who sails a lugged rig dinghy. He challenged a couple of bermudan sailors to a race from Manly boat harbour out to green Island (Moreton Bay, Brisbane) and back, the catch was that the race started in the carpark with boats on the trailer and ended with them back on the trailers ready to drive away. They haven't risen to the challenge yet :-)

Lee

[David G]

And DAVE - regarding the capsize - I was showing off - to girls. I don't think you had any such excuse!
MIK[/QUOTE]


Mik - Well, I was/am dumb as mud and totally inexperienced at sailing. The day I did an unintentional gybe and capsized was the first day I'd ever sailed. You were showing off for a boatful of sheilas... now who r e a l l y has the better excuse? LOL

Seriously, I'm looking forward to the day when capsizing only results from a moments inattentiveness. When I will immediately know what happened, how and why. BTW, I was having an absolute ball prior to the dump. At first, in almost no wind, she still made a bit of headway - upstream against a very brisk current. Then when the wind came up, even I was able to zip her around - both with and into the wind. Several people commented on what a pretty sight she was. They're right. That big balanced lug rig combined with a paint job (light blue w/dark band just below the gunwale) that makes her look low & sleek. Gorgeous... to my admittedly biased eye. They even said it almost looked like I knew what I was doing (till I tipped her over). I'm impressed that the boat can create that impression. I've watched several other newbie sailors early efforts. Without exception, they looked like a barrel full of spastic monkeys on speed.

[Keith Wilson]

FWIW, the fishing boats on the east coast of Scotland, Fifies, Scaffies and Zulus, had absolutely enormous dipping lugsails (have to take 'em down to tack). I don't think this would be real practical for pleasure sailing, to say the least. 120 sq ft doesn't sound too bad. How big a sail did the larger Drascombes have?

Here's a Fifie. Those guys were tough.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

Tough is not the word.
Up on the north east coast at 58°N there's a village called Wick where the natives are so hard they don't even try to sleep through the long dark cold winter nights - they get out in the street and fight - just to keep warm - so Nobody gets any sleep.

As Dr. J. remarked to Boswell - "There's no point heating your bed against a Wick brawl".

But They Can Party

[Osborne Russell]

Originally Posted by ian scott

thank you michael and osbourne.

I hope I described it adequately. Reading my own description just now it wasn't that clear even to me. Here's version 2:

The sail, including the boom and the yard, are on one side of the mast, lying in a bundle. The halyard goes from its attachment at the forward end of the boom, aft,on the other side of the mast, and back to the attachment point at the middle of the yard, [in my case, a metal ring tied to the yard with cord] forget that, Michael's right, use a small block. The halyard goes through it, from front to back, then up and forward to the mast, where there is a dumb sheave, block or something that leads it down to the boat.

As Michael says its a great advantage to not have a parrel. Reach up and grab the yard with one hand as you ease the halyard with the other, and down she comes.

p.s. because the yard is only attached to the mast by the halyard, led through its sheave at the top, and you have both the halyard and the yard in your hands.

[almeyer]

Originally Posted by Osborne Russell

I hope I described it adequately. Reading my own description just now it wasn't that clear even to me. Here's version 2:

The sail, including the boom and the yard, are on one side of the mast, lying in a bundle. The halyard goes from its attachment at the forward end of the boom, aft,on the other side of the mast, and back to the attachment point at the middle of the yard, [in my case, a metal ring tied to the yard with cord] forget that, Michael's right, use a small block. The halyard goes through it, from front to back, then up and forward to the mast, where there is a dumb sheave, block or something that leads it down to the boat.

As Michael says its a great advantage to not have a parrel. Reach up and grab the yard with one hand as you ease the halyard with the other, and down she comes.

p.s. because the yard is only attached to the mast by the halyard, led through its sheave at the top, and you have both the halyard and the yard in your hands.

Do you suppose such an arrangement would work on a standing lug? I've read in several places that the halyard attachment point on a standing lug is important, and best determined by trial and error.
Al

[Boatmik]

Originally Posted by almeyer

Do you suppose such an arrangement would work on a standing lug? I've read in several places that the halyard attachment point on a standing lug is important, and best determined by trial and error.
Al

I have used it on standing and even dipping lugs.

If you use a block on the yard as per the above photo and simply fit it with a rope loop you can move it to wherever it is needed. I generally use this method to attach all blocks to wooden spars - and even aluminium ones (though you might need something to stop them sliding on an alloy spar) as it reduces the number of holes required for fastenings.



Or you can use a ring instead of a block as suggested by Osborn Russell above.

If using a thinner spectra halyard I would normally use a block rather than a ring just to increase the radius that the halyard bends around - but some might think that overkill.

Lug rigging details
http://www.storerboatplans.com/Faq/t...rformance.html

Michael